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butterfly
10-18-2004, 02:40 PM
Dear Mommy, I am in Heaven now, sitting on Jesus' lap. He loves me and cries with me; for my heart has been broken. I so wanted to be your little girl. I don't quite understand what has happened. I was so excited when I began realizing my existance. I was in a dark, yet comfortable place. I saw I had fingers and toes. I was pretty far along in my developing, yet not near ready to leave my surroundings. I spent most of my time thinking or sleeping. Even from my earliest days, I felt a special bonding between you and me. Sometimes I heard you crying and I cried with you. Sometimes you would yell or scream, then cry. I heard Daddy yelling back. I was sad, and hoped you would be better soon. I wondered why you cried so much. One day you cried almost all of the day. I hurt for you. I couldn't imagine why you were so unhappy. That same day, the most horrible thing happened. A very mean monster came into that warm, comfortable place I was in. I was so scared, I began screaming, but you never once tried to help me. Maybe you never heard me. The monster got closer and closer as I was screaming and screaming, "Mommy, Mommy, help me please; Mommy, help me." Complete terror is all I felt. I screamed and screamed until I thought I couldn't anymore. Then the monster started ripping my arms off. It hurt so bad; the pain I can never explain. It didn't stop. Oh, how I begged it to stop. I screamed in horror as it ripped my leg off. Though I was in such complete pain, I was dying. I knew I would never see your face or hear you say how much you love me. I wanted to make all your tears go away. I had so many plans to make you happy. Now I couldn't; all my dreams were shattered. Though I was in utter pain and horror, I felt the pain of my heart breaking, above all. I wanted more than anything to be your daughter. No use now, for I was dying a painful death. I could only imagine the terrible things that they had done to you. I wanted to tell you that I love you before I was gone, but I didn't know the words you could understand. And soon, I no longer had the breath to say them; I was dead.I felt myself rising. I was being carried by a huge angel into a big beautiful place. I was still crying, but the physical pain was gone. The angel took me to Jesus and set me on His lap. He said He loved me, and He was my Father. Then I was happy. I asked Him what the thing was that killed me. He answered, "Abortion. I am sorry, my child; for I know how it feels." I don't know what abortion is; I guess that's the name of the monster. I'm writing to say that I love you and to tell you how much I wanted to be your little girl. I tried very hard to live. I wanted to live. I had the will, but I couldn't; the monster was too powerful. It sucked my arms and legs off and finally got all of me. It was impossible to live. I just wanted you to know I tried to stay with you. I didn't want to die. Also, Mommy, please watch out for that abortion monster. Mommy, I love you and I would hate for you to go through the kind of pain I did. Please be careful.

Love,
Your Baby Girl





*~Please**Mommy**Please~*


Aborted at 7 weeks.

Thanks to my friend who send me this mail

ashokcsn_2000
10-18-2004, 02:49 PM
so distressing to read it..... :( .... not many realize that they are killing a life that they were responsible for.... it is better not to have one than trying to decide otherwise and destroy it even before it is born....

the worst part is that they just consider it dispensible and so and there are no consistent laws against this practice...... :( ...

Priyanka
10-18-2004, 03:06 PM
But we cannot say that abortion is wrong always. What if the fetus is abnormal, or if it is an illegal child? Boomiyila porandha avangalukkellam innum kashtam.

Ashok_Taurus
10-18-2004, 09:36 PM
:00: :00: :00: appadi ellam onnum illingooo....US vanthu parugo...avanga ellam enga valnthu katuranga....everybody is made to live, thats y they are created...its bad to kill it before it steps the real world.. :b: :b:

:think: :think: :think:
For Instance,
see this example ! ! !

One of the greatest scientist now we have... :b:

STEPHEN HAWKINS

http://hep.ucsb.edu/people/hnn/hawking.jpg

"Where do we come from? How did the universe begin? Why is the universe the way it is? How will it end?

"All my life, I have been fascinated by the big questions that face us, and have tried to find scientific answers to them. If, like me, you have looked at the stars, and tried to make sense of what you see, you too have started to wonder what makes the universe exist. The questions are clear, and deceptively simple. But the answers have always seemed well beyond our reach. Until now.

"The ideas which had grown over two thousand years of observation have had to be radically revised. In less than a hundred years, we have found a new way to think of ourselves. From sitting at the center of the universe, we now find ourselves orbiting an average-sized sun, which is just one of millions of stars in our own Milky Way galaxy. And our galaxy itself is just one of billions of galaxies, in a universe that is infinite and expanding. But this is far from the end of a long history of inquiry. Huge questions remain to be answered, before we can hope to have a complete picture of the universe we live in.

"I want you to share my excitement at the discoveries, past and present, which have revolutionized the way we think. From the Big Bang to black holes, from dark matter to a possible Big Crunch, our image of the universe today is full of strange sounding ideas, and remarkable truths. The story of how we arrived at this picture is the story of learning to understand what we see."

--STEPHEN HAWKING

Priyam2004
10-18-2004, 10:07 PM
Oooooohhhhhh......very touching and it brought a tear to my eye :( :( :(
Abortion is a horrid thing to do....it's considered as murder....how would one like to be murdered, just cos' the unborn hasn't seen the world and we haven't seen her/him...doesn't make the unborn not a life! :(

Thank you Butterfly :sm08:

bbabab2004
10-18-2004, 10:35 PM
why is shyam picture so big. make it small. hard to read

dinesh
10-19-2004, 05:02 PM
The policy of pro-life not only does not make much sense, it also denies the right of choice for individuals. The entire concept of pro-life hangs on the thin thread of whether the baby is alive or not in the womb, which is nothing but a technicality. Apart from that pro-life concept has no consideration for the socio-economic problems the baby or its parents are facing/might face, which is, to put it simply, quite stupid.

I am quite short of time at present, and when I get more time I'll share more views on this.

BTW, What has Stephen Hawkins got to do with abortion? :think:

vasan
10-19-2004, 05:10 PM
Apart from that pro-life concept has no consideration for the socio-economic problems the baby or its parents are facing/might face, which is, to put it simply, quite stupid.


Socio-economic problems?? I see.. Please do come to Salem District in Tamil Nadu, where parents kill their baby daughters citing exactly same reasons. Is that individuals choice too?? After all they are the parents... :ahha:

And if you think the baby should have a say or choice in deciding, from what age? One second before birth, its still a fetus, and one second after, it has its choice??

I am afraid the reasoning is not so simple and no matter what the argument is, its not stupid. Indeed more logical than the arguments of socio-economic ballyhoo..

And yes, while we on the topic of counting bills and destroying life, lets all go ahead and kill everyone who cannot survive or will otherwise be unfit in the economic struggles of this age.. After all, the fittest should survive and sod the poor, unfit, and unhealthy... :ahha:

v-

vasan
10-19-2004, 05:13 PM
Ashok T,

Prof Hawking was not born that way.. :ahha: Don't put his pic and make a case for physically abnormal babies.. :doh:

v-

anainar
10-19-2004, 05:25 PM
This for sure is a raging debate all over the world. We look at abortion as an act of murder while it varies on on Partial birth abortion and the one's done when the foetus does not have life of its own.

The baby develops into having its own life over a period of time of 9 months. At 7th week it is still to take shape. Only by 2 months it starts getting little limbs. By three months, it is around 2 inches long and still not so much like a human being. I would call it still not a human being to be considered as murder. Beyond this, it is a little shaky to do abortion, both for the baby and the mother.

This article touches a chord with any one who reads and evokes strong emotions. But is life going to be governed only by emotions? A teenage mother who does not know anything about children will definitely be a liability. So is illicit pregnancy. All these socio economic problems cannot be ignored for the sake of Pro-Life.

I am not Pro-Abortion or Anti-abortion. I am for the govt and constitution to stay away from dictating terms for individuals.

Cheers

dinesh
10-19-2004, 06:02 PM
Socio-economic problems?? I see.. Please do come to Salem District in Tamil Nadu, where parents kill their baby daughters citing exactly same reasons. Is that individuals choice too?? After all they are the parents...

Exactly....this is why I am saying the parents should be given the choice for the abortion. If they cannot afford to raise that kid they will end up killing the kid anyway, which I'm sure all the kind-hearted ladies and gentlemen would agree is much more painful as the victim will have a well-developed nervous system by then. If not killed probably they would be sold to some middle eastern country where they will be slaves or camel-riders for their lives or end up as prostitutes in Bombay or Thailand. Is this what you say that should happen to kids? Are we happy so that they have to live a life of suffering and pain? Should we be happy to see generations and generations of kids living a life where they will know nothing but suffering and poverty? Is this what you want? And all this for what? A technicality where you argue an undeveloped fetus has life? All this for a concept which hasn't even been proved beyond doubt?

I am being practical here. What is the point of bringing in more and more lives who will end up in extreme poverty? I ask you now, will any of the pro-life people care about a kid after it has been born? Does anyone think what happens to it after birth? People are just arguing just for the sake of a point of view. The pro-life concept ends right after the kid is born. Nothing else is visible to those people when actually that is the thing you should be more concerned about? Does any of these people think about the countless number of kids abandoned every day in the world? What is your answer for this? State that first, then we shall argue about when "life" creeps into a fetus.



And if you think the baby should have a say or choice in deciding, from what age? One second before birth, its still a fetus, and one second after, it has its choice??

Pro-choice is all about the choice of the mother, who is going to give birth to the kid, and who is going to be responsible for the well-being of the kid. The mother should be able to decide based on her situation whether she can provide a reasonable life to the kid. It is not about random people sitting behind their computers making a choice on behalf of people they will never have met, and will not care about. It is not about the choices of people who would not care what happens to the baby after it has been born.



I am afraid the reasoning is not so simple and no matter what the argument is, its not stupid. Indeed more logical than the arguments of socio-economic ballyhoo..

You have to decide what ballyhoo is my dear grandpa. Is it making a clear decision based on your current situation whether you'd be able to support another soul or is it making a decision based on fictional emails written by grown-ups living in relative luxury based upon a fictional concept?



And yes, while we on the topic of counting bills and destroying life, lets all go ahead and kill everyone who cannot survive or will otherwise be unfit in the economic struggles of this age.. After all, the fittest should survive and sod the poor, unfit, and unhealthy...

Thanks for losing the plot altogether dude. I am not advocating killing. I am just arguing that we should leave the choice to the parents who are going to encounter the burden of giving a decent life to the kid. I'm only saying the choice is not mine or yours, as long as the kid is not ours. And I do sincerely hope many of these parents will make a choice so that they will give birth to the kid and endeavour to give a more than decent lifestyle to that kid.

The point, my friend, is the decision is not yours, mine or anonymous chain-email creators but of the parents.



I am not Pro-Abortion or Anti-abortion. I am for the govt and constitution to stay away from dictating terms for individuals.

Which is exactly my point as well.

vasan
10-19-2004, 06:27 PM
Exactly....this is why I am saying the parents should be given the choice for the abortion.


Oh, I see now.. So you are arguing that you are going to actually help the baby (and the parents) not face any financial hardship. Why are you stopping at abortion, then? Why not the choice (as the freedom lovers call it.. :ahha:) be given when the baby is 2 years, 10 year or 17 years old?? Exactly for the same reasons too..

Whose choice, any way? Mom? Why not dad? Why not the baby? Just because its a baby and can't defend its right, its RIGHTs can be violated, is that ir?

Prochoice is all about the mother. And thats where its is wrong. Its not all about the mother. Its about the child (which is might end up dead), and yes, its about the dad also...

Parents have every right about their children.. on the choices they make for their lives. Govt & society be damned. But parents absolutely have no right to take the lifes of their children (young, old or not yet born), and have no right to subject them to cruelty either.

To say that, I don't have the choice in agreeing what is legal and not legal in the society I live and calling it is freedom is about the most ridiculous thing I have heard. What is next, folks? Two people can fight each other and kill another and I cannot talk about killing being evil? That the choice should be left to those two, and why the heck the society should butt in?? Except that in the cruel case of abortion, the baby can't even fight... And just because they happen to be the parents, its argued that they should have rights over their life...

And its not even consistent.. Like I said, why not have the parents make their choice say when the baby is 2 years old?? Why is that murder and not abortion?? After all parents are the ones making the choice?? And while you may sound that you are arguing for choice, what exactly you are saying is that the parents have the right to kill - ie, you are exactly advocating what you claim not to.. Dinesh, if you allow one person to kill another - no matter whether they are parents and children or kings and subjects - for socio-economic reasons, and not protect the lives of others, you are advocating killing. Period.

Govt is meant for dictating terms for individuals, because its elected for that sole reason - so as to govern the behaviour of individuals so the society can survive.. Personal rights are so much different from taking some one else's life, and that is the business of the govt.

v-

Priyanka
10-19-2004, 06:33 PM
My dear Vasan. Abortion is not wrong in all cases. For example one of my mother's patients daughter was about 7 months pregnent when she was 13 yrs. Only then parents found out that she was pregnent. She was an unmarried girl, and some body raped her and the girl did not even know who raped her. Ofcourse the child was aborted. What will she do with the baby at this young age. Will you consider this abortion a murder?

I second Dinesh, in this issue. Wether or not to have the child, I mean to continue the pregnancy should be entirely left to the parents, mainly to mothers. Porandhappuram kalli paal kudutthu kolai pandratthukku, munnadiye abortion pannikkitta better. This is my view.

vasan
10-19-2004, 06:56 PM
I never said abortion is wrong in all cases, Priyanka. I am not a prolifer - as much as you think I am.. :) I only said abortion, on the basis of socio-economic reasons is illogical and wrong.

Mr. John Kerry's point on abortion for example, citing the cases of parental incest (dad or step dad impregnating his own daughter), is quite correct. Why should the parents have the right to decide? What parent any way?? Who ensures the safety of the pregnant kid or the kid not yet born?

Another even cruel example: You know scanning for finding baby's sex is outlawed in Tamil Nadu? The reason was that people would scan and if they knew its a female baby, they will abort.. A subtler shade of female infanticide. If the right to choose is simply parental right, then such abortions are OK. Now, tell me, if the parents should have total right in choosing?

There should be broad guidelines based on parental concerns, child' (perhaps not yet born), and legislation on what is ok and what is not ok. It is silly and overly simplified to say, just let the parents decide. No sir. They can't be final decisions on another person's life or death. Not if you want to avoid social chaos.

Aborting a baby for health and many other reasons is a highly complicated matter. While such things should be allowed, extreme discretion must be exercised both by the parents and by the doctors (who does the abortion and care for mom & baby's health). And govermental policies and rules should be made to ensure that the rights of parents (especially the mom) and the unborn child are adequately represented.

Economic reasons are really not the best of reasons to allow indescriminate abortions - and giving total control of childrens lifes in the hands of parents is not about choice, its about irresponsibility of the society, for the children and they parents both have rights.

v-

Priyanka
10-19-2004, 07:24 PM
Another even cruel example: You know scanning for finding baby's sex is outlawed in Tamil Nadu? The reason was that people would scan and if they knew its a female baby, they will abort.. A subtler shade of female infanticide. If the right to choose is simply parental right, then such abortions are OK. Now, tell me, if the parents should have total right in choosing?

I can never digest this. You are correct vasan. In this case parents should not be given full freedom. What is wrong in having a femal baby? Naan thaan ketkaren. How a male child can be more advantageous than a female child".

One of my friends became pregnent and she was very particular that she wanted only a male child. I asked her "Why you dont want a female chile". She said "I dont want to suffer with a female child." Athu enna "suffering with a female child"? 21st centuryla irundhum ivanga buddhi ellam maralai paarunga. I felt realy sad. I am very proud to have a girl baby, and if god gifts me with another female baby, I will be the most happy person to receive it.

bbabab2004
10-19-2004, 07:42 PM
priynkakutty, yes i also support you. pendu pillai endal enna kurasal.
i think you are right. men are creating the society problems by killing
female child. it is wrong.