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View Full Version : A win-win situation for India...?



coolian
02-17-2005, 08:55 AM
So there're millions of beggars in India. A big *******' eyesore. Sad thing is, most of these dudes are able-bodied...yet they laze around, beggin for money, with monkeys on their backs. Another thing is, Indian cities are dirty (Bombay...don't even get me started). Why doesn't the India govt "employ" or use these beggars to clean up the cities? We could pay 'em...or provide housing/food etc...That way, we'd rid ourselves of dirty cities AND those beggars - 2 birds with one stone! Wouldn't that make life easier for everyone?

yogesh220
02-17-2005, 02:46 PM
Wake up dude......wake up.......the beggars are not begging because they have to,....but they do what they do because they want to.....so it is not possible to get them work... and if we force them, then there will be a group that would spring up for the rights of these beggars.......... like BMK....Beggars makkal katchi..... :):):):)...that too, AIBMK.... anaithinthia beggars makkal katchi...or AIB munneetra kazhagam.... :lol:

silican
02-17-2005, 03:01 PM
Why doesn't the India govt "employ" or use these beggars to clean up the cities? We could pay 'em...or provide housing/food etc...That way, we'd rid ourselves of dirty cities AND those beggars - 2 birds with one stone! Wouldn't that make life easier for everyone?

No Coolian..Steps had been taken and possibilities have been tried. If I am right, the DMK govt came up with the idea of "Nalivuttror maruvaazhvu maiyam" thittam. Camps were opened for beggars through out chennai and food, shelter and clothes were provided to them. All they were asked to do was to use those palm leaves and coarse grass given to them and make Handicraft items. The plan seemed to be going well for a while. But the beggars who were having a better living doing nothing, just didnt like the idea of working for food and they quit.

When making handicraft items seems to be harder for these folks, can we expect them to toil in the hot sun and clean the roads ? :00: Now what could the government do, if these people are not interested in using a chance ? Put them in prison ? But how long ? Once they are out, obviously they will go begging for alms. :snooty:

Revolution can not come in a day when our ethos have major flaws. :(

- Silican

Shy
02-17-2005, 05:09 PM
Coolian, nalla thoughts thaan.. but it wont work in India :(

Eppadi beggars vachu oru groupae polappu nadathuraanga... they kidnap young kids, send them out for begging and live happily with the money they bring back... :( if govt try any new method.. beggars first ok panraangaloo ellaiyoo these guys will protest :( Its not that simple as you say unfortunately..

Shy

rsivaraman
02-17-2005, 06:05 PM
coolian great vision,
But the approach is not feasible, you cannot make all the beggars turn around overnight.
It has to start from the roots, these people become beggars, most of them, not because they chose, but they have been accustomed to begging. lot of people living in the slums leave thier kids to the mercy of nature and they either resort to begging for food or stealing.
The only way upliftment can be achieved is by basic formal education, try to improve the literacy rate, so that more and more kids will be able to make a living for themselves when they grow up. Litreacy also goes for 2 birds in one stone. environmental awareness grows with education. we get better citizens who can earn thier living and keep the country clean

Siva

dinesh
02-17-2005, 09:46 PM
I've got an even better idea. Why don't we get the beggars to grow thaadi and jadaamudi (hey, most of them already have it, don't they?) and then get them to play the part of Holy men. That way our people would give them more money than they give to beggars, and by sharing the wealth between the nation's poor everyone would be happy. :b:

More realistically, there is a question I have to ask you. Why should the beggars clean your cities. Why should people lucky enough to have born in a rich family expect the beggars to clean their places? Shouldn't they pay all their taxes without cheating the government so that the government can provide a good service to you, instead of trying to find a cheap solution? Instead wouldn't it be better if people come forward to educate this people, house them without expecting anything back? I think all this is very cynical.

Shy
02-18-2005, 04:34 AM
Dinesh...

I dont think appadi soli irupaanganu.. what I understood was.. Beggars are without jobs right and the cities are messed up.. so orae kallula rendu maangai adicha mathiri.. we can give jobs to the beggars and also clean up our city..Athai solraarnu nenaikuraen..

About the rich paying the taxes. So what dinesh.. do you think all the tax money is properly used.. eppadiyum narai per pocketkku thaan porathu athu :(

As silican said.. maruvaalvu ellam intha beggarskku try paninaanga dinesh.. but those people didnt want to trouble themselves as they earn pretty good by begging...

Shy

coolian
02-18-2005, 05:11 AM
Weird, I wrote a response to this, but it didn't show up...something's not right...

why should the beggars clean your cities
Dude Dinesh, maybe you're reading too much into what I said. Did I say that rich people should expect beggars to clean the cities for them? Loosen up a bit, man! What I meant was, with the beggars just lazing around, why not give 'em the opportunity to make some money in a job that would not be THAT difficult? Granted, like many members said, most beggars beg not because they have to, but because they want to. I've never really lived in India, so I'm probably pretty ignorant in this issue. So I should take that suggestion and shove it up somewhere else. Plus...what is the govt doing to rid the nation of beggars anyway? Nothing? I thought so. Education in India is supposedly compulsory from ages 6 - 14 (I recall reading this from somewhere)...what is the govt doing to ensure that is the case? Is apathy in our genes?

dinesh
02-18-2005, 11:01 AM
I dont think appadi soli irupaanganu.. what I understood was.. Beggars are without jobs right and the cities are messed up.. so orae kallula rendu maangai adicha mathiri.. we can give jobs to the beggars and also clean up our city..Athai solraarnu nenaikuraen..
I know what he was saying. I am just questioning the attitude. The problem is the way we write, it cme out the beggars have to do anything what we want them to do.


So what dinesh.. do you think all the tax money is properly used.. eppadiyum narai per pocketkku thaan porathu athu
The question is not how th money i s spent but how many people pay it honestly, out of a billion? Ask anainar and he'll give you statistics about the tax dodgers. If all people honestly paid their taxes, so many welfare plans can be put together without expecting anything back.


Dude Dinesh, maybe you're reading too much into what I said. Did I say that rich people should expect beggars to clean the cities for them? Loosen up a bit, man! What I meant was, with the beggars just lazing around, why not give 'em the opportunity to make some money in a job that would not be THAT difficult? Granted, like many members said, most beggars beg not because they have to, but because they want to. I've never really lived in India, so I'm probably pretty ignorant in this issue. So I should take that suggestion and shove it up somewhere else. Plus...what is the govt doing to rid the nation of beggars anyway? Nothing? I thought so. Education in India is supposedly compulsory from ages 6 - 14 (I recall reading this from somewhere)...what is the govt doing to ensure that is the case? Is apathy in our genes?
I know what you meant dude. Just questioning the reasoning behind asking the beggars to do what others are reluctant to do. I have no problems with giving the beggars work....

Think of the response if a suggestion was made in the UK that all homeless need to work for the local council cleaning the streets....

vasan
02-18-2005, 11:56 AM
Looks like the consensus is that the beggars beg, because they want to... :think:

To be sure, yes... may be some of them are... But not every one... not even when they are able bodied... Peoples misfortunes are many and while its deplorable that these people have to beg, its sad that it does not move people...

Money, burdening the govt exchequer and taxing the public (in case of any effort from the govt to rehabilitate these people)... its all there.. No one denies it....

But... but.. how about these people? In truth, they are as much a children of Bharatha Mata as any one of us are... While we are quick to point out the proud achievements of its children, are we also moved in heart to worry about the well being of its lowliest?

Sorry.. could not help the soliloquy... :oops:

v-

anainar
02-18-2005, 01:17 PM
I feel bad about beggars too. But what they need is compassion and dignified treatment to get back into normal life. While I dont deny that there are people who think of it as a profession, we will be able to move atleast some of them back to normal life. They should have the same right of right to choose work as we do. Not some charity. The handicrafts idea might have failed for variouse reasons. Every individual has some talent or the other. Asking me to do handicraft will be a fiasco even if I put 200% energy into it. It might have been the case with that scheme too.

It is also wrong to say that if every one pays taxes, we will have tonnes of money for freebies. Tax compliance is the highest in the US, yet they have the highest deficit in the world. It is all about how tight the govt spending is. In India, the money earmarked for welfare schemes are mostly unspent or eaten by corrupt bureaucratic system. Less than 5% reaches the target audience. If we block that huge hole itself, we might have achieved something.

The only way I see that these guys can be brought back is through people driven by compassion identify the skills and nurture them till they grow enough to stand on their feet. Getting them started and leaving early might also force them back to begging. It can be govt funded, but cannot be run by Bureaucrats/govt officials. It has to be run by people who really want to make a difference in the lives of those poor souls, and not some one who counts hours and wait for 1st of every month for salary from govt.

Cheers

vennai1
02-18-2005, 07:12 PM
well said iyanaar,

i donno how many folks are aware of the Bill O reilly show in USA.
the very same topic was brought up. that homeless in America need more money
from the rich. on the outset, it looks innocent and compassionate to spend
enuf money on these less priveleged.

but apparently stats dont lie and bush administration has raised homeless and
welfare spending up to 82% than what was in Clinton's... so still there was a
16% increase in the peoples claims for homeless, so this opens up...
are more people claiming homeless just to get free money ?! :?

that is one trend we donot want to condone :nono: whether in India/USA.

every man has to earn his bread and butter, whoever he is lawyer, doctor
or janitor. there is respect in that but not in begging ?!

dinesh
02-18-2005, 08:05 PM
You are just missing what I was trying to say. The main thing to note here is that you cannot force anyone to do anything. What I was trying to say is, if you wanted to elp out, help out in a way that doesn't expect anything back.

As far as taxes and benefits are concerned, the best way of utilising tax money is to give something useful to the people instead of just giving them money. I never said you should give them free money.

The US tax deficit is because of the acreless republican policy and the weak dollar. There is no-way you can equate that and taxes. Tax will always grow with inflation so you will always get in a steady stream of revenue. The lack or increase in tax does not really mean anything as far as deficit is concerned.