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Shy
06-17-2005, 03:34 PM
http://www.dinamalar.com/2005june17/photos/Fpn-01-a.jpg

Whats happening nowadays...

30 lakhs koduthu oru seat vaangi padichu vara oru doctor kita how can patients feel secured...
This is the most puriest and nobliest profession. Why are they materialising this :evil: :evil: :evil:

Shy

silican
06-17-2005, 04:07 PM
30 lakhs koduthu oru seat vaangi padichu vara oru doctor kita how can patients feel secured...
This is the most puriest and nobliest profession. Why are they materialising this :evil: :evil: :evil:

Ippdi ellarum solli solli dhan oru additional value koduththu romba thooki vachiteenga. Now this will be the result. I understand that Doctors save lives. So do traffic police , road workers and others. But we fail to see the importance of their work.

Simple matter. Traffic Police'a paaththa 'maama varaan'nu solrom. While travelling if we see road workers, we say "indha municipality kaarangalukku idhey velai. road'la pallam thondradhu" I dont understand why they are termed 'municipality/corporation' kaaranga. becos they work for the municipality/corporation ? So shouldnt we call our relative who works in the EB or even the CM as Municipality/Corporation aalunga ? :think:

My point is ella profession'yum equalla treat pannanum. Doctors ellam kadavul madhiri'nu yeththi vittu dhan ippdi aagi irukku. :(

- Silix

PS1: Ivanga yaarum Ramana padam paakalaiya ?? :think: adhula Caption romba emotional'a oru dialogue sollittu Doctors'a thiruththuvaar.
PS2: romba naal Geetham pakkam vandhu :evil: podaama kai nama namagutho ?? kolam podra madhiri pora postla ellam sagattu menikku :evil: Podreenga ;) "Romba dhan" enga pochchu ?

katteri
06-17-2005, 04:20 PM
In addition to silix comments:

Most of the people forget about the Jawans/Soldiers who lost their lives during the battle....Don't they need enough credit..........

I agree doctor profession is a life saving job....

But in a vast developed and civilised society & growing markets its not the individual profession which does the job efficiently but in co-ordiantion with other profession they become efficient and also effective.


Rombha simple ngha output......if they don't do well in their profession...they are going to loose the job and its the university which accepted them is going to loose the fame.......

''Education which was once considered as a sacred, spiritual entity is now looked as a business oppurtunity....

goodcomplanboy
06-17-2005, 04:21 PM
:00: yemma MBBS seat ivalavu costly aiduchaa :00:

Manju_11
06-17-2005, 04:25 PM
50lakhs a mbbs seat :00:

50laksh vaichu romba nalla buisness pannalam high level la.

ivloooooo pay pannaumna?

srsenthil
06-17-2005, 05:45 PM
Idukke ippadi solreengale, Karnatakale MD/MS seat oda rate 1 crore. Minister level recomendation irundha konjam discount kidaikumaam. Adhavathu 90 lakhs. Inna panrathu. Naadu romba kettu pochu.

silican
06-17-2005, 06:58 PM
Idukke ippadi solreengale, Karnatakale MD/MS seat oda rate 1 crore. Minister level recomendation irundha konjam discount kidaikumaam. Adhavathu 90 lakhs. Inna panrathu. Naadu romba kettu pochu.

1 Crore irundha edhukku MD/MS seat ?? :think: MLA/MP seat'e vaangidalame.. :sm12:

- Silix

dinesh
06-17-2005, 09:21 PM
I think education should always be talent based. There is no justification to "buy" degrees.

itechlegend
06-17-2005, 09:54 PM
nan itha pathi pesa virumbalai..
aana 50 lacks too too too much...
pota kaasa edukarthuku avan enna venumna pannuvan...

goodcomplanboy
06-17-2005, 09:56 PM
Idukke ippadi solreengale, Karnatakale MD/MS seat oda rate 1 crore. Minister level recomendation irundha konjam discount kidaikumaam. Adhavathu 90 lakhs. Inna panrathu. Naadu romba kettu pochu.

moor market'le poi oru 20,000 kodutha azhaga Madras Medical College, MBBS ceriticate'e vaangittu vanthudalaame :sm12: :sm12: :sm12:

butterfly
06-17-2005, 11:12 PM
moor market'le poi oru 20,000 kodutha azhaga Madras Medical College, MBBS ceriticate'e vaangittu vanthudalaame

I have heard about it...is this for real :00:


It makes me sick to read such articles....buying a profession with money :?


''Education which was once considered as a sacred, ...

I guess its not anymore :(

yamini
06-17-2005, 11:24 PM
Whats happening nowadays...

30 lakhs koduthu oru seat vaangi padichu vara oru doctor kita how can patients feel secured...
This is the most puriest and nobliest profession. Why are they materialising this

Shy


I am totally disappointed to hear this news. :( :( The above mentioned money i.e., 50 Lakh is a huge ammount. To put it in a simple mathematics, a middle-class person should work for 300 years to earn that. It shows the "himalayan stupidity" of our system. Unless we learn to respect each and every profession in an unbiased way, it is very unlikely to change the system.

The current system in our country is giving too much importance to "Medical Profession" and beleives that all other professions are inferior. I am not accusing the medical profession as I am from one of the medical professionals. Hence, I can comment on this topic. Also, our professionals behave differently and funny in India. (Please recall /remember the speech made by our president APJ.Kalaam's on people's behaviour when they are in India and Abraod) .I feel very sorry about this news. :( :( :( :(


மருந்து வாங்கவே உனக்கு
வழியில்லை
மத்திய வர்க்கமே
மறந்து விடு
மருத்துவப் படிப்பை

srsenthil
06-17-2005, 11:45 PM
Idukke ippadi solreengale, Karnatakale MD/MS seat oda rate 1 crore. Minister level recomendation irundha konjam discount kidaikumaam. Adhavathu 90 lakhs. Inna panrathu. Naadu romba kettu pochu.

moor market'le poi oru 20,000 kodutha azhaga Madras Medical College, MBBS ceriticate'e vaangittu vanthudalaame :sm12: :sm12: :sm12:

MMC, Madras University oda affliationla irundhavaraikkum appadi oru nilamai irundadhu, but ippo MBBS certificate kidaikarathu illainu kelvipatten. Aana madras University oda ella certificatem kidaikkuthu. Including PhD.

Idhu unmailiye sila varudangalukku mun nadantha sambavam. Madras Universityla oru prof.kitte (He is no more, so I dont want to reveal his name) 1.5 lakhs kudutha exacta after 3 years avar 6 copies of thesies kuduppar. Neenga edhuvum seyya vendaam. Oru maasathuku oru dhadavai attendencella mattum poi sign pannina podhum. Adhai vaangitutu poi submit pannirlam. It is a syndicate approved original degree.

vasan
06-18-2005, 12:19 AM
ர்ர்.. pretty old stuff.. enna puthusaa vantha pola pesureenga?

every self-financing med school in bangalore does this.. Engineering seats (especially computer science) would cost about 20 lakhs too.. this is has been there since late 90s and its been climbing ever since..

These are mainly targetted with US based NRI's in mind.. Just about 120 thousand dollars... And another 50 or so thousand for the next 4/5 years to graduate.. Still works out to be under 200K, where as the same med school education in US would cost easily upwards of 500 K... dead cheap.. :D

Besides, when they return back to US to practice, all they need is passing some exams or whatever..

Some cool way to make money thats all. Who said that these schools are there to serve people? :ahha: In any case if they don't take hard earned tax payer- money, why should any one care? :Ksp:

I don't like it, but I don't see it as a doomsday for Indian Education.

v-

sri_gan
06-18-2005, 02:58 AM
Avanga avanga avangalukku therincha vazhizha panam sambathikuranga.... ithule enna puthusa a irrukku nu therila... :sm12: same pretty old dialogues and pretty old velavasi kudi poochu saaar.... ivanunga thirantha mattanunga.

suha
06-18-2005, 03:59 AM
500.000 RS-or doller :?

if its rupess no wonder...
ingah adha vidda adhigam laa :Ksp:

coming september i am going to first year college univ :ee: ingha edam kidakrdhu kastamm HONG KONG univer city la eddma kidakardhu kastam :doh: and medicel college la rombho rombho kastaam :oops: MBBS ku laam benjing(china) thaan pogganum :Ksp:

evolo teriyumma pay pannanum...... 100.000 doller :Ksp: 6 month ku :oops:

appo MBBS ku adhu 500.000 is parruva ilaa :?

goodcomplanboy
06-18-2005, 04:03 AM
I have heard about it...is this for real
It makes me sick to read such articles....buying a profession with money

Indeed true. Oru kaalathule ithu romba romba famous. Enakku therincha oru payyan school'le book eduthu padichathe kedayathu. BE Computer Science degree kaasu koduthu vaangitaan (he didnt go to any college, just 4 years nalla ooru suthinaan) Avanga appa amma avanukku vaangi koduthaanga. But he went to some computer courses and he is right now working in an IT company :sm12: ithu eppadi irukku :sm12:

Idiot
06-18-2005, 02:55 PM
edho ellarum solli mudicha appuram,.. nanum thappi thavari padichutaen appadingara varuthathoda..

idhu namma natula especially i dont know about north india tamil nadu, andhra.. enakku therinja varaikum romba common.. mbbs, engineering seatukku rate varusha varusham fix pannuranga..

indha mbbs seat vangina odanae mattum podhadhu idhukku pinnadi oru periya kadhaiyae irukku.. oru lab pass pannanumna vara examinerukku kasu kodukanum, lab attenderukku kasu kodukanum,.. ippadiyae ella edathulaiyum koduthathaaan arrear vaikama pass panna mudiyum

adhuvum mbbs la arrear vacha andha paper pass pannura varaikum adhutha paper elutha mudiyathu.. athanalae nalla padikara pasangalum kasu koduthuthaan pass pannanum..

this is real happening in tamilnadu in a reputed top ranked medical college which i have seen in case of my friend.. ( who is state 3rd rank holder in +2 for mbbs) who passed some labs by giving money to doctors and attenders.

idhu ellam kekum podhu yen padichom, yedhukku padikanumnu oru veruppu thaan varudhu..

no one can help in this.

dinesh
06-18-2005, 04:06 PM
Some cool way to make money thats all. Who said that these schools are there to serve people? In any case if they don't take hard earned tax payer- money, why should any one care?
Because they are giving out qualifications which will then be used to provide services for people, in this case an essential service. Since there is no restriction who they can coach or on the criteria for passing someone, you might end up with some very worthless characters serving you. Would you really like to see someone who barely passed his secondary examinations being practicing as a doctor? In my opinion if you can't do well in your high school exams, there is no way that you are going to be capable of receiving further education.

Think about it, when we go to a doctor, we dont ask him/her about where they studied, we naturally assume that they went to medical school because they were bright in studies, and the school also passed them on merit. It is not going to be the case anymore.

Secondly, this is going to affect poor but bright students, because a) the same number doctoral positions are going remain but with more people qulaifying and b) the resources allocated to teach medicine is gradually going to get attracted towards the private sector more, which will cause shortages in teaching the students who deserve that education.

At the end of the day plcing a price on education is a very very bad thing. That will mean people with genuine talent might not get through, and someone whose only qualification is to having been born in a rich family will get an education they neither deserve nor are not going to make much use of anyway.

anitam
06-18-2005, 06:50 PM
So Doctor seats are only for upper class people.... Why is this???

Nowadays even other profession people are earning more than them.

vasan
06-18-2005, 09:47 PM
Because they are giving out qualifications which will then be used to provide services for people, in this case an essential service. Since there is no restriction who they can coach or on the criteria for passing someone, you might end up with some very worthless characters serving you. Would you really like to see someone who barely passed his secondary examinations being practicing as a doctor? In my opinion if you can't do well in your high school exams, there is no way that you are going to be capable of receiving further education.

D,

Thats NOT true. Most of these people are those who have studied in other countries, who want to study in India because its cheap. Not necessarily dumb, barely passed secondary education people...

Besides, the money is the fee for admission. Not for passing. If the Govt/public is worried about the quality of education, the Board of Med. Exams can and should stop issuing licenses. Even if a student is a top ranked kid in high school, if the education and certification at med school is not ok, how is he.she is gonna learn??

Quality of education MUST be preserved in school and govt/public/boards have a responsibility to it. If the schools get some money by by giving away 10 % seats to rich folks who want a degree, but if the education/training is of decent quality, whats any one gonna lose?

At least 90 % of the rest of the kids also got the same decent education with out paying too much money. Imagine if only govt funded schools and non-profit missionary schools were offering medical education.. Hardly enough to meet the demands of no. docs..

Cycle is too vicious, and though the money sounds too much, I don't think its a big deal of an issue. It would be, if some accredited school hands out degrees, just because they got 5 million rupees..

Vasan

vasan
06-18-2005, 09:53 PM
So Doctor seats are only for upper class people.... Why is this???

Nowadays even other profession people are earning more than them.

About 10% of the seats are allocated to management quota (much like every other reservation.. !).. and the rest of the people are admitted as per whatever education/reservation criteria.

For that the schools don't get any money from Govt to run the school and maintain it, meaning public pays nothing more than the pay for the standard staff. If the same is run by another govt school, everything is paid by the funds.

If the schools can maintain a decent facility and standard, and if they can generate some resources by giving 10% seats to rich folks, is that a crime, anitam? :D If they demand money for every one, and produce 'killer' surgeons then its a problem..

Yes, making money is a motive - but thats not all. What should people really comment is about the quality of these schools, and the certification procedures for people passing out of ALL schools.

I don't really care about the rich 10 % who gives money, and the schools taking it. If they really get a decent education, and turn out to be competent and approved docs, so be it.

Vasan

vasan
06-18-2005, 09:59 PM
Oh.. one last thing..

This is pretty much the same story in every other country as well. In USA, if you are joining for undergrad in a school (govt uni), if the school is not in the state you are living, you are pretty much done. You will have pay non-resident tuition for every year (until graduation) - and it can amount to nearly 40 K per year. (One reason every one wants to live in CA or east coast. Good schools.. :b: Who wants to live in Idaho and Montana or NM??).. For med school, (+ pre med 2 years), this alone could come out to be 200 K...

For grad school its a bit different. If you are citizen, the first year you pay Non resident fees, but the second year, (since you have already lived in that state for a year), you become resident..

Go every where, if you have a motivation. Find affordable education. Study hard, become competent. And practice your profession to the best of your abilities and training.. thats what I say... :wink: :P

v- :D

ps: I am going to live in MA or CA. No where else. Mind you, I am making sacrifices for my children and their education, thats all. :wink: :P Thats what great dad's do.. :sm12: :sm12:

yamini
06-18-2005, 11:43 PM
Avanga avanga avangalukku therincha vazhizha panam sambathikuranga.... ithule enna puthusa a irrukku nu therila... same pretty old dialogues and pretty old velavasi kudi poochu saaar.... ivanunga thirantha mattanunga

I don't think ever these people people would change..




idhu ellam kekum podhu yen padichom, yedhukku padikanumnu oru veruppu thaan varudhu..

I do feel the same. That's what "these stupid people" are demoralising the existing "talented and dedicated students" who wants to come in life and do something good to the community. I am more interested in "these students". If you pay such a huge money, how can you expect these doctors are going to do something good to the social community?.





evolo teriyumma pay pannanum...... 100.000 doller 6 month ku

**** kutty, you are lucky that you are in USA/UK?. you need not worry much [/quote]




ர்ர்.. pretty old stuff.. enna puthusaa vantha pola pesureenga?

Vasanji, what are you talking about? I was thinking that we are talking about the present Indian Education meant for Indian people-Not for rich and wealthy people in USA/UK or other rich countries thinking in business way that "Medical Education is cheaper in India".

dinesh
06-18-2005, 11:46 PM
Thats NOT true. Most of these people are those who have studied in other countries, who want to study in India because its cheap. Not necessarily dumb, barely passed secondary education people...
In which case I have a question for you. From when did India, a country with a chronic shortage of medical professionals, thought the most important thing they should do now is to coach foreign nationals so that they can serve in their countries?

What you are missing here is that the teaching staff needed for these universities are going to be poached from the existing state schools, since the supply of such staff is strictly limited. And since the pay is going to be better the staff will be willingly moving too. This is definitely going to imapct the quality of education in the state schools. Yet again the rich are going to win, regardless of their intelligence or ability.


At least 90 % of the rest of the kids also got the same decent education with out paying too much money. Imagine if only govt funded schools and non-profit missionary schools were offering medical education.. Hardly enough to meet the demands of no. docs..
Not really...if the government is willing to invest more money in medical education, instead of the other silly things they do, then you will have enough medical schools. That is what we have in Sri Lanka, and it works to an extent. It is the governments duty to provide the money for education for essential services like this, because if in the future the infrastructure is going to collapse because of a shortage of doctors, then it is them who are going to pay the price for that.


If the schools get some money by by giving away 10 % seats to rich folks who want a degree, but if the education/training is of decent quality, whats any one gonna lose?
That 10% of kids who did better by miles in their qualifying exams than these silly rich folks are definitely going to lose out. Is that the message you are going to give to the youth? Whatever you do however hard you study, you will be treated like dirt if you don't have money.....

Putting a price on education is WRONG. If you want to learn something and you have proven yourself being capable of learning that stuff, then you should be given a chance to learn that thing, regardless of the money your father has.

============================== ===========================
Actually there is a basic flaw in your argument. If a kid is rich enough to afford to spend this much money on his education, then what difference is 200K and 500K is going to make to him? Even if it does, there are loads of universities around the developed world which run with ample capacity to take them in. What is the justification for these rich kids to exploit the scarce resources in a developing country like India?

vasan
06-19-2005, 12:09 AM
From when did India, a country with a chronic shortage of medical professionals, thought the most important thing they should do now is to coach foreign nationals so that they can serve in their countries?

Its not the important thing in India. People started this as a revenue generating thing for them. Govt permitted, because with out these schools, the 90% folks getting admitted there will end up doing indian history... No schools you see..


that the teaching staff needed for these universities are going to be poached from the existing state schools, since the supply of such staff is strictly limited.

Not true. Pay is pretty much the same - fixed by Govt. There are other perks, though. Anyways, the point if prety mute. No prof who is teaching in Madras Medical is going to go away and resign his job. He will teach in the evening sessions and rake in more money, but no one is leaving..

The point is, that this phenomena of capitation paying insitutions HAVE not affected anything except the prolification of doctors... There are plenty more docs now than before - plenty more engineers now than before and plenty more everything now before..

No private school, save a handful of old schools, have began solely for humanitarian purposes. Do you know Captain has an engineering school? He gets money too.. :wink: Has it affected quality teachers going to teach at IITm? :wink: :P


message you are going to give to the youth

No message to the youth. Like I said, there is a quota in India for every concievable thing. No one gives a second thought. Not for these anyways. These capitation paying nonsense exists right from elementary schools.. :evil: good private schools are expensive. Good govt schools are RARE. What message are we giving to the children? That capitalism and money sucks?? Well.. too bad I am poor.. :(


you will be treated like dirt if you don't have money.....

rr.. Is paying capitation fee to some silly med degree going to teach me this lesson? :P :P

Even my aththai ponnu treats me like dirt as I am poor.. :sm12: :sm12: Whats new, D-?


if the government is willing to invest more money in medical education, instead of the other silly things they do, then you will have enough medical schools.

Well.. guess we have to talk to the govt.. Free, and/or affordable education (be it med school or art history) to any one who is able and intelligent, no hunger, safety to all, peace to the poorest, affordable health care, easy jobs, great quality of living..

rr.. sorry if I sound bitter.. but, you see my point don't you?

You see, Shy's post about paying 50 lakhs is missing out one thing - that such a thing has been there for more than 15 years and not one 'really bad' thing has happened to the country. May be there were paying 20 lakhs 5 years back.. but thats only inflation.. nothing new..


What is the justification for these rich kids to exploit the scarce resources in a developing country like India?

I don't see it as exploiting the scant resources, but as providing resources for the remaining 90%. Like I said, if these capitation instutions cease to exist, (what reason, but to take these money from rich and may be gullible NRIs?), then there are NO schools (not enough in any case) for those 'merit' students enrolled in these schools..

I am sure there are tons of students who studied in private engineering colleges here in Geetham. Those folks would not have studied engineering (may not be a big loss to them now, but 5/10 years back, its is a sure way to find a job and lead a life, instead of being a proverbial jobless youth with b.com.. ).... If the schools have not started (for the taking money from rich), even these well qualified folks of Geetham might not have had a decent break... :D

I see a glass 90% full.. heck with the empty 10% !

Vasan

suha
06-19-2005, 12:23 AM
v- :D

ps: I am going to live in MA or CA. No where else. Mind you, I am making sacrifices for my children and their education, thats all. :wink: :P Thats what great dad's do.. :sm12: :sm12:

aama vaa polaam.... me ready :ee:


**** kutty, you are lucky that you are in USA/UK?. you need not worry much

**** :? :cry:

me not **** = suha :cry:

sukka = dry in hindi :Ksp:

me from Hong kong :ee:

yamini
06-19-2005, 12:30 AM
sorry....Suha kutty. :( sorry....Suha kutty. :(
I am getting old , it seems :lol:

-yamini

vasan
06-20-2005, 07:03 PM
some related info:

Its from Hindustantimes.com. Believe it at your own risk.. :ahha:

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1405407,0008.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~

Indian diaspora may get exclusive university

Indo-Asian News Service
New Delhi, June 20, 2005

An exclusive university for overseas Indians and steps to protect Indians married to them are some of the welfare measures mooted by the central government for its 25-million strong diaspora. The measures are in addition to dual citizenship and introduction of smart cards for People of Indian Origin (PIO) announced last week.

Minister of State for Overseas Indian Affairs Jagdish Tytler on Monday said the launch of budget airlines to the Middle East was one of the steps to make life easier for Indians abroad. He said the Government was contemplating setting up an university exclusively for persons of Indian origin (PIO), keeping in mind their need for quality higher education.

"Most countries where PIO are based have good primary and secondary education. But when it comes to higher education, Indians are often left out," Tytler said during a media interaction here. The proposed university, which would be privately financed but certified by the Indian government, would take care of this shortfall.

"Though it's still in the conceptual stage, I have spoken to the Human Resource Development Ministry and got a favourable response." Tytler said an estimated 25 million PIO lived across the world. According to the latest balance of payments data of the Reserve Bank of India, remittances by non-resident Indians in 2003-04 alone were $33.27 billion.

Steps would be taken to address the problems faced by Indian citizens, especially the women, married to PIO, he said. Another initiative meant to safeguard the interests of Indians who go abroad for work would be the smart card, which would contain details of the migrant, the name and address of the overseas employer, the remuneration promised, a health record and information about the recruiting agency, the minister said.

Tytler said land had been acquired for setting up a Pravasi Bharatiya Kendra in the diplomatic enclave of the capital. This would serve as a focal point for interaction with overseas Indians. Earlier, dual citizenship was open to PIO in 16 countries - Australia, Canada, Finland, France, Greece, Ireland, Israel, Italy, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Portugal, Republic of Cyprus, Sweden, Switzerland, Britain and the US.

The facility would now be open to PIO in all countries that allowed dual citizenship. "We cannot discriminate between PIO of one country and another. They all have their roots in India. Dual citizenship will be open to all and we have now simplified the application forms too," Tytler said.