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View Full Version : Animal Research for Medical Purposes - Good or Bad?



dinesh
08-02-2005, 05:05 PM
As above. Your views please.

Debate is limited to medical research only. No discussions about silly cosmetics please. Cosmetics testing on animals is exceedingly stupid. :evil:

che
08-02-2005, 05:07 PM
if it is for human beings then fine. i am saying fine not good.

vasan
08-02-2005, 06:18 PM
Morals and ethics... :think:

Mankind has always been 'selfish'... (which is pretty much the case for all animals, being incapable of making their own food). We have been planting and 'harvesting' plants (for our food), breeding, killing, milking and hunting animals (for our own food and sport), and farming and fishing again for food and sport. Is it a part of nature? Do we have moral-right to do it? Is it any different from lions and tigers and crows? :Ksp:

Seems like an unwritten law that all animals will have to feed on other life-forms (and to heck with people arguing on whims that plants have no life, and all that.. :ahha:)..

If we object morally for killing of animals to suit our purposes, killing them for food is equally wrong. And on the other hand if thats Ok (seems like nature wouldn't allow us, even if we are morally stricken..:Ksp:), then why not for other medical purposes?

I think its ok, to breed and test on animals (at least as much as breed and kill for food). I think if its done 'within the currently practiced ethical laws' (and I am not making it legal or non-legal, but only considering ethics), I think its ok. Ok, because we don't (seemed to) have a choice. Ok, because that seems to be the 'law of nature'.... Its not as though that the researchers do it because they enjoy torturing animals.

(Most arguments seems to stem from the 'misplaced' love affair of pets.. :Ksp: Oh.. thats my baby.. how can you... :ahha: People have lost sight of pets and animals. People have pet fish, and yet they don't mind enjoying grilled salmon.. then why not this? :Ksp:)..

v- :D

srsenthil
08-02-2005, 06:25 PM
The use of animals for medical research is very very essential, but care should be taken that the animals do not suffer unnecessarily. Once a particular trial is over, then the animal should be sacrificed immedeately so that it will not suffer.

rsivaraman
08-02-2005, 06:40 PM
I have worked in animal care faciltiy for 2 and a half years. the procedures followed for animal research are so strict and stringent that these laws ensure that the animal undergoes the the least pain possible; depending on the research.
When animals are killed for eating , why not be bred for a cause that is equal or higher than that.

-Siva

srsenthil
08-02-2005, 07:44 PM
Siva,

I have also seen in some labs that the animal is neglected after the experiment. For example in one lab, a tumour was induced on a rabbit (just below its eye) and after the experiment was over, the animal was not sacrificed but was left as such. The animal suffered for about 2-3 days and then it died. Since I was visiting that lab, I could not do anything but be as a mute spectatar. These kind of things should be avoided.

Senthil

rsivaraman
08-02-2005, 07:53 PM
I have also seen in some labs that the animal is neglected after the experiment. For example in one lab, a tumour was induced on a rabbit (just below its eye) and after the experiment was over, the animal was not sacrificed but was left as such. The animal suffered for about 2-3 days and then it died. Since I was visiting that lab, I could not do anything but be as a mute spectatar. These kind of things should be avoided.

if you had seen this in some kind of a university, there should have been some reason why that animal was left for 3 or 4 days, if you are sure that it was left unattended for no particular reason you can send a complaint to the Institutiona Animal Care and Use Committee(IACUC) of that university and they will prevent that lab from conducting further experiments on animals unless they abide by the regulations.

-Siva

vasan
08-02-2005, 08:01 PM
you can send a complaint to the Institutiona Animal Care and Use Committee(IACUC) of that university and they will prevent that lab from conducting further experiments on animals unless they abide by the regulations.

rr.. yeah.. alright, but first talk to the dude who was doing the work - and if it fails, talk to the PI (prof or whoever is the lab director)...

It wouldn't do too well to snitch on your hosts to IACUC (even if they deserve it.. :Ksp: :Ksp:)..

பாருடா, காசு குடுத்து கூட்டிட்டு வந்தா.. வந்ததும் போட்டு குடுத்துட் டான்னு சொல்லுவாங் க.. :P :P

v- :D

rsivaraman
08-02-2005, 08:12 PM
The most dumbest things with IACUC's are that they send out mails to the PI's on the day they will do the inspection :doh: which dosen't serve the purpose. there should be surprise visits so that the real state of the lab can be found out. even with the prior notice so many labs used to be a mess :Ksp:


It wouldn't do too well to snitch on your hosts to IACUC (even if they deserve
it.. )..
delicate situation :D
These ppl take umpteen number of courses on how to handle animals before they are allowed to touch them, don' t they have common sense :doh:

-Siva

vasan
08-02-2005, 08:14 PM
don' t they have common sense

Sivaji,

as they say: commonsense is not all that common.. :(

v-

srsenthil
08-02-2005, 08:16 PM
Dear Vasan & Siva,

Thanks for the information on IACUC. Since I am an industrial biotechnologist working on microbes, I was not aware of this committee.

vasan
08-02-2005, 09:19 PM
Senthil,

Several committees are there...

If you have to use humans as test subjects (for some medical trials or psychological tests) you will have even more committees to satisfy and criteria to meet.

Even dead bodies cannot be used as test material - or any thing that is obtained from a living or dead human being, even with permission can not be used until it is approved by the ethics committee. Each university has its own ethics panel and so on, which are regulated by Federal commisions. :P

If you are working on any of these related areas, your lab/dept will provide you the necessary guidance. :P

v- :D

Bluelotus
08-02-2005, 09:52 PM
I would support it.

blue.

sri_gan
08-03-2005, 04:27 PM
I don't know anything about animal research, but i feel its too much to kill an animal for a research when you can not give the life back to that animal.

Everyone knows for a fact Medical Field is most oldest field in the world, because from the words of Tamizh:

Unave marunthu, Marunthe Unavu.

If translated, Food itself is a Medicine and Medicine itself is food.

Beyond that, I feel this field lags Digging or a acceptance heart.

How do I say that?

In Medicine, to my knowledge, I know Allopathy and Homeopathy , if we go across the lands we may see more terms.

If this field takes a step to merge all the inventions irrespective of language barriers and form a central core of knowledge, I believe there will be answers for all sort diseases.

You may argue that Medical field is slow process yes I know but that doesn't mean people should not accept knowledge from others.

If you take homeopathy or Ayurveda these have roots very long back and some allopathy doctors themselves said in their comments that surgery habit was there even before Allopathy has been doing surgeries.

Based on those, I feel people are reinventing the same wheel and they are sacrificing animals for the sake they lag in digging for forefathers knowledge.

So my instance is encouraging more animal research is a bad idea and any society should attempt to reduce such things and if possible even vanish it.

Why don't they make a simulated human with computer and biotechnology and leave these animals to live?

May my words be strange, yet if it opens another mind to think, may be there is a resolution tomorrow.

My stance is Living Animal Research for medical Purpose is bad, they can use a dead animal for that, like they do humans.

Every living thing wants to live in the world and let them live.

valluvan
08-03-2005, 07:35 PM
All the things that are in earth, are created only for the human beings to benefit. Hence I support it.

In other words, as per the law "Survival of the fittest", Man is more mightier than other beings including plants/ animals, etc.,. So I support animal research.

Who knows? If some mightier alien from other planet attacks us, then the same principle apply. :D :ahha:

sri_gan
08-03-2005, 09:24 PM
All the things that are in earth, are created only for the human beings to benefit. Hence I support it.

This is not true.

jaggy4u
08-03-2005, 10:16 PM
I think the topic itself answers it "Animal Research for Medical Purposes" , althgh its logically wrong, I do support it for medical purposes.

raghu
08-04-2005, 05:21 PM
i support it for medical purpose..as many of u have said when it can b killed and eaten why not use it for medical field

Shy
08-04-2005, 05:58 PM
Sapiduraanga.. Athukku usefulla.. medical purposes for a benefit for other living being panrathu i dont think anything wrong. Sapidaratha, illai ippadi use panalaama keta, i go with the second.

Personally, Me being vegetarian, I dont accept it... Coz pets or animals, both are important to me..

Shy

Bluelotus
08-04-2005, 09:23 PM
I
Why don't they make a simulated human with computer and biotechnology and leave these animals to live?


the reason: we know very very little about how the human body works. Medication work at a molecular level which is still pretty much mysterious :ee:
there still discovering new receptors and ligands, etc...

Bluelotus
08-04-2005, 09:28 PM
Personally, Me being vegetarian, I dont accept it... Coz pets or animals, both are important to me..


pets are animals.



So akka, would you volunteer to test the possible new drug that say for example GSK has developed? would you put yourself on the line?
Would you be willing to take a drug which, according to the scientist should work, however as it hasn't been tested on animals cannot be guarranteed to interfere with something else in your body and kill you? :think: :think: :think:
food for thoughts, I would say before joining the naimal right activist, who like the anti-abortionist think so very little of huan lives that they don't mind killing doctors and scientists... :think:


blue.

vasan
08-04-2005, 09:43 PM
food for thoughts, I would say before joining the naimal right activist, who like the anti-abortionist think so very little of huan lives that they don't mind killing doctors and scientists...


blue.

spell check.. spell check.. :ee: :doh: and possibly some use of punctuation.. :oops:

food for an anti-generalization-thought : :wink:

anti-abortionists think so little of human life? :Ksp: I thought they value it and thats why they are opposed to abortion.. :ahha: ... (don't call every pro-lifer as a arsonist and abortion-clinic-bomber... :doh: :doh:

vasan
08-04-2005, 09:49 PM
My neem tree is my life. In fact the one at home is named after me, being as old as me. And I would hate any one killing the plant or maiming it or breaking its branches for the so called noble purpose of making some medicines. Doesn't my tree have a life? Does it not feel pain?

My thakkali chedi and keerai chedi (in my garden) are my pets. I love them and take good care of them. I hate it when people don't respect it and make keerai masiyal and thakkali chutney.. :doh: How heartless!! :evil: those paavam things.. can't speak, can't even cry, and much much worse... can't even run to save their life from such human beings.. :ahha:

totally-nonvegetarian-who-is-opposed-to-murder-of-innocent-plants v- :evil:

ps: If you consider sarcasm and irony as a non-existent form of argument, try munching some fresh neem leaves early morning, for 3 years in a row, for a cure. Guarenteed ayurvedic medicine to instill a sense of humor. Old Indian practioner at the foothills of Kolli Malai attest to it.. :ahha:

dinesh
08-23-2005, 09:59 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/staffordshire/4176094.stm