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priyarock
10-12-2003, 02:25 AM
This is about ****`s Extermination camp for Jews during second world war. Some photos are disturbing, BUt i posted this cos we must know the danger and the outcomes of Racial discrimination which are still prevailing in this world. I believe that our children or Grandchildren may live in a world where everyone are given equal rights and RESPECT.


http://www.wsg-hist.uni-linz.ac.at/Auschwitz/HTML/Seite1.html

arumugam57
10-12-2003, 02:44 AM
Nice. But you should have given those pics.
I went to the site. I thought it is big site and not possible to get the details what you told with in short time.

Then I came back.. Just.

So.. Why don't you post some good pics with description priyaaji?
Please. :pray::pray::pray::pray:

priyarock
10-12-2003, 02:52 AM
Photos of AUSCHWITZ


http://www.wsg-hist.uni-linz.ac.at/Auschwitz/GIF/titel2.GIF


People were driven in live-stock waggons -
carrying all their goods and possessions, since they were told
that they would be "resettled".

http://www.wsg-hist.uni-linz.ac.at/Auschwitz/JPG/Dep-1.JPG


One of the many mass graves which were found by the Red Army
after the liberation

http://www.wsg-hist.uni-linz.ac.at/Auschwitz/JPG/Opfer-1.JPG



The SS-guards
http://www.wsg-hist.uni-linz.ac.at/Auschwitz/JPG/Taeter-2.JPG



A goods waggon with a window covered by a barbed wire.
Sometimes there were not even windows.
The SS stuffed people like animals into those waggons,
many died from exhaustion already during the trip.
http://www.wsg-hist.uni-linz.ac.at/Auschwitz/JPG/Dep-3.JPG


Stone barracks in Auschwitz II-Birkenau
http://www.wsg-hist.uni-linz.ac.at/Auschwitz/JPG/Alltag-5b.JPG


Auschwitz II- Birkenau: prisoner's latrine
http://www.wsg-hist.uni-linz.ac.at/Auschwitz/JPG/Alltag-3.JPG

****************************** ****************************
Food rations per day
****************************** ****************************
In the morning:
1/2 liter of unsweeted coffee substitute or tea

At noon:
3/4 liter tasteless soup from potatoes or potatoe peelings, rutabaga and other ingredients. (350 to 400 calories, that corresponds with 100 g ham-sausage).

In the evening:
About 300 g bread with either 25 g sausage or 35 g margarine, one spoon of jam or cheese.

The bread was also meant as part of the next breakfast.

The calories of a dinner amounted between 900 and 1000 calories. Heavy workers sometimes got a "Schwerarbeiterzulage" (heavy worker's bonus) The food often was old or spoilt.
****************************** ****************************

Liberated twenty year old female camp inmate from Austria
(picture taken by physicians after the liberation)

http://www.wsg-hist.uni-linz.ac.at/Auschwitz/JPG/Muselfrau.JPG


Auschwitz II Birkenau: Inmates excavating a drainage ditch
on the swampy camp ground.
(picture taken by the SS-man Kamann 1942-1943)
http://www.wsg-hist.uni-linz.ac.at/Auschwitz/JPG/Alltag-12.JPG


Auschwitz II- Birkenau: Prisoners constructing crematorium IIIhttp://www.wsg-hist.uni-linz.ac.at/Auschwitz/JPG/Alltag-13.JPG



Picture out of a Soviet movie "Chronicle of the Auschwitz liberation"
taken after the liberation. It shows how the barracks
were overcrowded with prisoners.
http://www.wsg-hist.uni-linz.ac.at/Auschwitz/JPG/Alltag-2.JPG

Extermination

Tin of Cyclone -B -gas
http://www.wsg-hist.uni-linz.ac.at/Auschwitz/JPG/ZyklonB.JPG


View to the crematorium IV from the Southeast in April 1943,
shortly after the official putting into operation.
http://www.wsg-hist.uni-linz.ac.at/Auschwitz/JPG/Vernichtung-13.JPG


Picture, taken secretely by the resistance in the camp.
It shows prisoners of the "Sonderkommando" burning bodies
(Photo: obviously taken by "Alex",
a Greek Jew who worked in the "Sonderkommando")
http://www.wsg-hist.uni-linz.ac.at/Auschwitz/JPG/Widerstand-1.JPG


The "Black Wall".
At this wall, thousands of prisoners were shot
http://www.wsg-hist.uni-linz.ac.at/Auschwitz/JPG/Todeswand.JPG

Punishments
Auschwitz I Concentration Camp. In the basement of "Death Block" 11 were special cells, called "Stehbunker": On a sqare of 90x90 cm, four people were locked in. Since the space was limited, they all had to stand.

http://www.wsg-hist.uni-linz.ac.at/Auschwitz/JPG/Vernichtung-25.JPG


One of the most horrifying punishments was the so-called "Pfahlbinden".
The prisoners were bound on a pile with their arms turned to their backs, so that their feet could not touch the ground anymore. (Wladyslaw Siwek, 1946)
http://www.wsg-hist.uni-linz.ac.at/Auschwitz/JPG/Vernichtung-4.JPG

The painful death often lasted for minutes. In most cases, death obviously did not occur by break of the neck - rope and height of fall were too short - but by suffocation or strangulation.
Mobile gallows, where prisoners were hung, too
http://www.wsg-hist.uni-linz.ac.at/Auschwitz/JPG/Vernichtung-Galgen.JPG


There are more pictures in the site..check them out..

priyarock
10-12-2003, 04:54 AM
6face !!! unfortunately..i believe these are not good pictures , it depicts only pain and suffering of Innocent people who were murdered for the only cause that they were Jews.....

There were more disturbing pictures in yugoslavia under Milosovich, killings which were potrayed as ethnic cleansing and BULL sh**...those were more disturbing than these pictures.....

I just can`t imagine or believe how humans can murder other fellow humans hearing or following commands of some pschyic leader....

arumugam57
10-12-2003, 06:07 AM
Thank you GIMLI!! :pray::pray::pray::pray:

priyarock
10-12-2003, 12:01 PM
yeap ,..u r welcome ! :b:

anainar
10-13-2003, 03:10 PM
Priya,

These pictures are tell tales of human history can never be denied their place in history, of how cruel the human beings were, even after barbaric age. All the ones who preach freedom and humanity have practiced these violent means. British had their colonies of terror and suppression, US has its own Hiroshima/Nagasaki, Germany has its AUSCHWITZ, China has its Tianenman square

It is heartening to know that, though we are are more than 6000 years old in civilization, no one can never ever pin point such an atrocity committed in our mother land in such a scale. We are leading torch bearers when it comes to peace and amity.

Cheers.

kananipitthan
10-13-2003, 03:35 PM
இதைப் பார்த்தவுட ன் பழைய ஞாபகங்கள்த ான் வருகின்றன
ஈழத்திலும் இப்படித்தா ன் நடந்தது இதே பதுங்குகுழ ிகள் பிணக்குழிக ள் சித்திரவதை க்கூடம்
ஆனால் அதைப் படம் பிடிக்க எம்மிட கமராவுமிரு க்கவில்லை (பறித்துடை ்கப் பட்டன) படம் பிடிக்க வெளிநாட்டு பத்திரிகைய ாளரும் வரவில்லை

arumugam57
10-13-2003, 03:38 PM
Hi Kanini..
why don't you start one seperate topic about what happened in sri lanka..
so that atleast we can come to know..Please..

Thanks in advance.

vennai1
10-13-2003, 08:52 PM
oh man. horrible pictures. i hope hitler is given the same treatment

in hell by the devil... :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

vasan
10-13-2003, 09:18 PM
pretty graphic...

anainar is happy to say India has not done any such atrocites. Dude, how do you treat casteism? People were (and are) still treated like animals. No excuse for such trashiness.

we don't have to say germans did this, US did this and so on... It is a crime against humanity - what happened in Germany is. And all humanity should be ashamed that such things could happen - and make sure collectively such things wil never repeat. Even in a small scale.

Thanks Priyarock for posting the pics and the link. Schindler's List, Life is beautiful and The Pianist are some movies that treat this topic... Very moving... shakes your mindset...

for peace, equality and justice !!

anainar
10-13-2003, 09:37 PM
Vasan,

Come on dude! Are you equating Casteism to Ghettos of Nazis? Get real dude. First and foremost Casteism flourished during British period, because they never wanted us to be united.

On top of this, as a Govt policy, we take every possible way to remove that.( Reservation apart which makes Casteism omnipresent ) And our constitution goes extra mile to grant them special rights. None of our Govts purused the policy of ethnic cleansing or racial discrimination. That is what I meant. There could be abberrations here and there, those are minor irritants in a society as wide and as deep as ours. That is what I meant, when I said about India. And however you dig deep in the history of India, you will never ever find atrocities of this scale.

True, as human beings, we are to be ashamed of these Ghettos and Hiroshima. But more than that, we should be proud of our civilization which has imbibed these values in us. Next time a German comes and preaches us about Freedom, we have every right to tell him "Go look at your Ghettos".

In that aspect only I meant we are torch bearers, for having a fairly cleaner history than any one else. Not that I am happy that these things happened and it did not happen in India.

Cheers.

vasan
10-13-2003, 09:47 PM
Casteism did not thrive in Bristish Era (meaning they weren't the ones who introduced it). It was there before and it was there then, and it persists now. I have read about three separate incidents in the last two weeks from tamil nadu alone where people where made to eat shit just because they were from a low caste. Read in Kumudam about these incidents - including their editorial.

For your information, the atrocities cited in Auswitz do not happen today either. The Govts in Germany and else where are against it. Do not take Hitler to be their current leader. Therefore do not say our current constituition goes over an extra mile where as germans did this 50 years back.

Deal reality as reality not viewed through some lens of prejudice.

Our Govt began only about 60 years back. By the way you have written, whatever Ambedkar and Gandhi and scores of other fought for social justice is al nonsense - because it didn't exist. I am sorry to disagree anainar... I think your view is prejudiced or wrong.

Thanks,

Vasan

anainar
10-13-2003, 10:02 PM
Vasan,

I never said Casteism did not exist or do not exist. The scales are coming down, because of great people like Ambedkar and Gandhi who fought for social justice. There are a host of others too, who contributed in their own way. You have understood my posting exactly the opposite way.

FYI our constitution was also written 50 years back. At that snapshot of time, look at what our leaders did and compare it with Ghettos. You look at 1000 years back, or 10 years back, you cannot see a ghetto. We have our own problems, but the magnitude of ethnic cleansing or mass massacres are unheard of in our history.

I am not justifying what happened at those places. The fact is that, they are noticed and will be punished. In a country of 1 billion, you dont expect social change in 50 years. Definitely India is going to be a better place to live. But India never was a place which had Ghettos. That is what I meant. And that is the product of our civilization. Now tell me whether I am prejudiced.

Cheers

vasan
10-13-2003, 10:21 PM
I still disagree with you. What happened in Germany is ethnic atrocity against one minority group of people. They were hated and were brutally suppressed during **** era. In India, our own people were suppressed for several centuries. One whole section of people are treated as worst part of human society. They were not killed - as in ethnic cleansing - but were treated in such a way to remove their human dignity and were not given any choices of survival.

What is worse? Depriving a man of his life or his dignity? Can a man live like a man once his humanity is removed? Is mental, social, and pschycological deprivation any worse than losing lives?

Oh, are slums better than ghettos? Only in so much as that the people were not being targetted for death. In living conditions not that much. I am talking about today - and not some 50 years back. I can't even imagine what it must have been, back then.

To me what is most bothersome is that the people treated like this were not strangers, or people with other religious/political/social/linguistic beliefs. They are same in every way - and yet these are treated like human garbage. Explain that cruelty to me, and ask me if India was better.

My point: The cruelty has existed in some form or the other in nearly all the countries - and no one can have an morally upper ground on that. Not us, not them. To me, humanity has lost collectively in all these sorrowful parts of history. What is important is to incorporate an understanding and tolerance and brotherhood that would eliminate these incidences for good.

Trust me, anainar.. I am not downgrading our country. I am criticising our country - who else should do it? We should see the troubles we have, and correct ourselfs. Our pride should come in future whenn we have truly given equality to all - irrespective of caste, sex, creed, language or geographical location they hail from. Like, Tagore wrote... "Where the mind is with out fear, where knowledge is free..." Let that be my country, is what I pray. Let that be our country !

vasan
10-13-2003, 10:29 PM
To me what is most bothersome is that the people treated like this were not strangers, or people with other religious/political/social/linguistic beliefs. They are same in every way - and yet these are treated like human garbage. Explain that cruelty to me, and ask me if India was better.



A note of explanation:

What I say in the paragraph given above does not mean that for religious/political/social/linguistic beliefs people can heap atrocities on the others. It means that the miserableness of our crime cannot be attributed to any of the reasons usually attributed in these kind of crimes.

Tianman square? Political idealogy, independence ??
US? Race and color?
****? Race??
British? Race and money and political power?

Caste??? I don't know why or how or what for... except the base mind... and cruelty.

Any of this, and each of these atrocities are to be condemned. Nothing is better than the other - whatever be the reason. All are equally bad, and completely deplorable.

Hope this explains my stand better.

Sorry, if my words are harsh or rude. But I do feel strongly on this topic, and any thing stated is only because of that, and definitely not to criticize any ones view points. Forgive me if I hurt some one inadvertently.

Thanks for your patience, folks !

sri_gan
10-13-2003, 10:36 PM
Naan simple a onee onnu solluren.

Of three persons:

If two persons say the same thing or similar thing it becomes YES or CORRECT and If one person denies it becomes NO OR WRONG.

If there was only two person and one agrees and one denies it becomes a STALE.

If there is only one person who thought, then it becomes a rule.


Thats how all the history is created in the human life.

It doesn't mean everything is correct and everything is wrong.

I was quietly watching this topic because of that reason only.

vasan
10-13-2003, 10:41 PM
Podaa, Sri-Gan. Escape pannadhey man..

What we are doing is exchanging our views. I learned some thing from anainar, and hopefully he benefitted too (I mean, at least knows what I think, even if he/she doesn't agree with me..) What are friends for if we can't even talk and express our opinions, right, anainar??

Some how this Auschwitz and other concentration camps are so emotionally wrought, its hard not to say something about it.

You don't have to respond to our comments, but you can always write about the pics PriyaRock has posted... yenna..? lets hear from you...

sri_gan
10-13-2003, 10:51 PM
Vasan,

I'm not escaping or anything, fact a illaya nu mattum sollu. Even the voting system is based on that, ethanai per kai thookuranu paaru naatta avan kaila kudu.. every thing working on nalla tamizh word "nambikkai"

Regarding the pictures, It is heart breaking, obviously i will become sad by looking at those souls. Rombe kastama irruku. I can see so many expression on those faces.

Naan enna solla mudium priyarock'ku. I'm not able to use words here.

vennai1
10-13-2003, 10:56 PM
I think as India is getting more liberal and literate...

casteism has been suppressed to a great extent.


I donot think one fine day, there will be no castes !

But I just wish, that there is no bickering and fighting

amongst them. !

That is the India of the future !

Jai Hind !

dinesh
10-13-2003, 10:57 PM
I agree with vasan upto a level.....the caste system has caused the same amount of psychological suffering to the people involved, compared to the Jews under the Reich....
I don't think we can compare physical suffering upto the same level...

It is very sad that some people think that by being born into a particualr society/religion/race/caste ,they are better than another person. It goes on to show the ignorance they exhibit towards the whole humanity...

anainar
10-14-2003, 02:58 AM
Come on guys! Are we equationg the ghettos of Reich with Caste system in India? I agree both are sufferings and are inhuman. But I cant digest killing of 2 million people is equal to the caste system. That too which is getting eradicated with active support from our founding fathers of our Nation.

Caste system is a social phenomena which is being fought socially with a great amount of succes. And the fact is that the State does not support that and enacted laws and provided protection to the oppressed. While the ghettos are not social phenomena but an act of tyrant and is a blot. Though they cause pain, the fight is different.

Cheers