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coolian
09-06-2007, 07:33 PM
An article (http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/09/06/opinion/edbanerji.php) that I am inclined to agree with.

tinker
09-06-2007, 08:33 PM
Interesting .... thought provoking and have to agree with the author and I have never been to Calcutta ...

Shy
09-06-2007, 10:17 PM
Stupid article.

PS: Been to both kolkata and mumbai

Shy

tinker
09-06-2007, 10:35 PM
Stupid article.

PS: Been to both kolkata and mumbai

Shy

can you elaborate?

coolian
09-07-2007, 01:55 AM
Enlighten us, Shy.

Shy
09-07-2007, 01:33 PM
75%-80% of Indian population are well below the poverty line. All this economic blast is helpful only for the upper middle class and upper class. till now a normal govt employee cant eat in all those hifi restuarants, buy latest stuff for his family.. only an IT person and his family can. So this is the so called development in India.

Thus, the author wants the world to know about this unhealthy development and not the actual majority needful people. Oru alien vanthu thaan atleast made some step to help these people.. Still she cannot help the child pros or orphans in calcutta.

The world want to know only the areas where we need help. And thats precisely want the media is/should be doing. We didnt tell them about the 300,000 engg students that would come out of college everyyear. But they tapped the resource. But no one will come forward to help all these needy people unless the media projects it.. let it exaggerate if it might help.

About kolkata and mumbai.. yes all the hifi areas are well developed and has the best transport, shopping malls, education (like reliance having branch with coaches like kapil etc). For a LKG alone, per year its 2.5L. This is the development. NPO's like ASHA and CRY are trying to build a small school (paalvaadi's they call) in the same cities for the slums but with no support whatsoever. The help that these guys get a very minimal.. like in 50-100 NRIs and local Indians. Also pursuing the parents to let go their children to study rather than making money out of them in anther problem. Ofocurse they would be happy to send their kids to education if either the govt or some organization like therasa's help them run the family. Abdul Kalam sir says in every speech that education is best and every Indian should have that. Even in Kerela where they say 100% literacy, 40-50% person know only to sign to get their money order from abroad.

So evalooo development irukku namba oorla., we cannot project ourselves as the developed country with all that hitech stuff we have, developments etc.. coz the baseline people are still deprived of everything and we need the world to know that. Once a slum child can get a proper education without working or being pushed to all the dirty things, then we can boost about all our other developments.

My thought thou :)

Shy

suriyan80
09-07-2007, 01:43 PM
75%-80% of Indian population are well below the poverty line.

:cry::cry::cry::cry::cry:

coolian
09-07-2007, 02:00 PM
75%-80% of Indian population are well below the poverty line
Please get your facts straightened out.

suriyan80
09-07-2007, 02:11 PM
Please get your facts straightened out.

coolian

enna veruppu ????????


:)

Ncm
09-07-2007, 02:13 PM
i think the article's focus is completely "off" where it should lie. the writer seems like an example of someone who likes to complain for the sake of complaining. while it's true that "countless unheralded local organizations work for the needy without the glamour of a Nobel Prize or of impending sainthood", the writer fails to recognise the effectiveness of establishing one as an icon of mercy - people are much more willing to donate to the cause of "mother theresa" in comparison to an unheralded local organization. then it goes further to critize mother theresa of robbing "Calcutta of it's richly nuanced identity" - puh-leaze! even if this is so, since when did anything come without a price tag :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Shy
09-07-2007, 02:16 PM
Please get your facts straightened out.

if wrong, show me the facts cools :)

Shy

Ncm
09-07-2007, 02:18 PM
suriyan, your picture isn't displaying...pls fix :b:

suriyan80
09-07-2007, 02:21 PM
suriyan, your picture isn't displaying...pls fix :b:

:):):)
siva siva... :cry::cry:
pattathu pothum ..

:)

Ncm
09-07-2007, 02:22 PM
Please get your facts straightened out.

this might be of some use to you: http://www.planningcommission.gov.in/news/prmar07.pdf

suriyan80
09-07-2007, 02:25 PM
apparam ..........Ncm
ningalummmaaaaaaaaaaaaa
kuttu kalavani...............??????? ?????:confused:

coolian
09-07-2007, 02:31 PM
Where did you get your statistics from? A few sources would be nice.

You might want to start off with Google (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=poverty+india). Here's a study from the government of India (http://www.planningcommission.gov.in/news/prmar07.pdf). Sources mentioned in Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_India) might help too.

suriyan80
09-07-2007, 02:37 PM
vasathi ellatha kumpam enga india
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d5/Delhi-workers.jpg

oru nalakke vasathi varumm............:)



india va virumpatha ninga engala maranthudunga..ple...

nanga valthal valuvum
ellatte


kuttathoda savummmm

http://sydneyphonecard.com.au/image/card/jaiHind_10.gif
जय हिन्द::Jay Hind!

ns80
09-07-2007, 02:38 PM
For a LKG alone, per year its 2.5L.

Price paid for schooling in general has gone up, but certainly not this much.

tinker
09-07-2007, 02:48 PM
Teacher - I am not sure if you got what the author was trying to say ... my understanding was the author was frustrated with the westeners projecting Calcutta as a slum and Mother Teresa was God send to take care of those ppl ... (no offense to her)... he rather wants them to see Calcutta for its riches and not just as a slum that was totally taken care by MT ... its the same argument we make when ppl say we are descendants of Aryans and not Dravidians ....

Also , the overall cost of living has gone up atleast in the Metro cities ... and I don't think 2.5L is the fees in each and every school....My sister paid 25k for her kid and thats still pbbly more than the cost of my entire schooling ..

Shy
09-07-2007, 05:22 PM
Cools.. sorry cools... all these studies and wiki might be helpful for a country like japan.. but not for India.. where u dont even know if certain families exist :) they dont have any PAN(SSN) or any such thing to fall under the radar of our sweet govt.

Ok may be unakaaga vachukalaam.. 50% padichavaa irukaa okvaa.. but still half of our country is way below right?

Tinker... no, I did understand what the author has mentioned... Only because of her did we know about the slum in kolkata.. give me one good such example where the entire world get to knew about the fate our slums, if not because of her... mumbai la kooda thaan similar like kolkata antha mathiri area irukku... all 5-6 year olds are being used... is there any big organization taking care of such kids?? like MTs in kolkata? even if there are few.. they dont get that much hype or help like the funding that pours for MTs. Why shud we whine when some foreigner helps the helpless??? is it all wrong what the west thinks? are all indians happy with atleast one meal? illaiye.. appo worldkku therinchu.. help vantha enna... korainchaa poiduvoom? d

Thalaivar solra athe dialogue solren..

In india..

Rich are getting richer
poor are getting poorer

Athai media worldkku kamichu.. athu vazhiyaa help vantha its good thaan ennai porutha varaikkum :b:

All these developments, monuments etc iruka thaan seiyum.. history la it all will be noted.. but those helpless peoples life are more important than these for the world to know.

Shy

Shy
09-07-2007, 05:27 PM
its the same argument we make when ppl say we are descendants of Aryans and not Dravidians .... .

No it isnt the same my dear tinker...

There are facts to prove that First, second and third class are descendants from Aryans and the so called untouchables are the dravidians who were initially in India.. there is no deadlock whatsoever except for some kalulimangans and politicians who dont want to accept that ;)

Avalavu yen... namba cools few months back he did a DNA trail remember... ayya ooda descend yenga poi mudinchathunu kelungo ;) I bet mine will be somewhere there too and urs as well ;)

Shy

vasan
09-07-2007, 06:18 PM
Ms. Banerji has a lot of misplaced pride, and as we say in tamil, 'eithavan irukka ambai noykiraar'.. that is, she leaves the problem but attacks the one who pointed it out. Worse infact, because Mother Teresa was not working to point out the problem, but to provide some relief and comfort to those who are suffering from it.

Facts: Slums and such are not imaginations of west or some inventions Mother Teresa and Missionaries of Charity made up to attract fame and fortune to themselves. That seems to be the implication of Ms. Banerji's article.

Secondly: Ms. Banerji accuses Mother Teresa to be still tied down to her catholic dogma. What does she want? That Mother Teresa should become irreligious? Being christian was her inspiration to serve others - irrespective of their caste/creed. Missionaries of Charity and Mother Teresa did not then or now hold their compassion for people based on their religious beliefs. If Banerji or others do not know about that, all I can say is, I feel sorry for you.

Thirdly: Some dude in NY or LA or some place XYZ asks about slums in India and not care about the rich heritage.. It shows the dude's ignorance. If I am offended by that, it also shows my ignorance. Others must know that India is (much like any other country) has its past and present glories and failures. We must do the same. I am terribly proud of my country for all the things it has, had and whatever else, but I am also heartbroken about the slums, and poverty, and female infanticides, and dowry and casteism and a billion other things. If you seperate one from the other you don't have the real India - you only have your imagination.

Fourthly: Slums in Calcutta or Bombay or NY or the Skid Row in LA are a problem. Such things exist in practically every country. There is nothing to be proud of - nor does it diminish a country's pride when some one says you have a problem. Doesn't salvation army work the same way in US? Do people in US complain like Ms. Banerji? Also would Ms. Banerji also accuse Prez. Clinton, and Mr. Gates and Mr. Bono for highlighting only the poverty, and AIDS crisis of Africa and leaving out the rich cultural heritage and nuances and natural beauty of Africa? Would she also accuse them of whatever religion (or the lack of it?).. Why not?

Fifthly: Why the colonial past? I mean.. how long are we going to blame the Brits? We have the country for the past 60 years.. can't we clean up our mess? Why is Mother Teresa a reflection of colonialism? Was she a brit? Were the brits catholics? Was she swindling money from Calcutta and build castles in Windsor? Was she treating people as slaves? Do the missionaries of Charities engage in any of those activities? I have no idea what to describe of her writing...

~~~~~~~~

Just an article by an writer, who needs a dose of reality and realization of her own bias. My guess is that these sorta 'hail calcutta' articles would make her more popular and fun to read in Calcutta (and to calcutta folks reading IHT.. ) and hence she does it - uncaring whether the views are justifiable or correct.

Frankly I don't care who you are, what religious or caste or color or nationality you have, if your aim is to alleviate sufferings of poor and needy and dying, in my opinion you are a saint. There is nothing more saintly than to wipe a tear or shed one for them.


v-

coolian
09-07-2007, 06:34 PM
Cools.. sorry cools... all these studies and wiki might be helpful for a country like japan.. but not for India.. where u dont even know if certain families exist :) they dont have any PAN(SSN) or any such thing to fall under the radar of our sweet govt.
Yes, but these studies/surveys are the best approximation we have for India. Give me something else that is more accurate, otherwise.


Ok may be unakaaga vachukalaam.. 50% padichavaa irukaa okvaa.. but still half of our country is way below right?
"Way below" - what do you mean? I don't understand your point here.

I get your gist though. You're saying that despite the supposed glory of cities like Calcutta, the crap in the city far outweighs whatever good in it. That's true to an extent. What the author is saying, however, is that because of what MT has done for the city (be it good or bad), (only?) images of destitution are conjured up when one thinks of Calcutta. That's it. When people think of Bangalore, they think IT. Think of Manhattan, and it's cha-ching! all the way. Calcutta? Slums, diseases and poverty. From a native's point of view, that's not something to be too proud to be about; hence, the author's words of lament. Not something worth arguing about, really. It's totally understandable. S/he wants to highlight Calcutta's riches, but because of the media's fascination with MT, pretty much everything positive about the city has been overlooked. A pity, really.

On to the off-topic!


There are facts to prove that First, second and third class are descendants from Aryans
No.


and the so called untouchables are the dravidians who were initially in India..
No.

Everyone is a mix. Nobody is "Aryan" or "Dravidian" per se. Like I've mentioned a million times in the past in a million posts, this whole "I am an Aryan" or "I am a Dravidian" stuff is just something people say to make themselves feel better.

Ncm
09-07-2007, 06:36 PM
:clap::clap::clap::clap: v

ambai = bow? :confused: me never heard the saying before but i want to know the tamil equivalent :o

Ncm
09-07-2007, 06:38 PM
between 18 and 34% have been the figures lately...but 25% was the most recent reported by Wikipedia for India's population percentage below the poverty line :b: so those who are way below are probably going to be a percentage of them again...according to the stats...how accurate they are...well i have no clue :b:

vasan
09-07-2007, 06:48 PM
NCM,

vil --> bow
ambu --> arrow..

literally: Why leave the archer but blame the arrow.. :b:

~~~~~~~~~


When people think of Bangalore, they think IT. Think of Manhattan, and it's cha-ching! all the way. Calcutta? Slums, diseases and poverty.

Calcutta has really missed the bus, in a sense. See the offensive PR done by the then CM Naidu and how it created a buzz for Hyderabad. For example: Gates visits Hyderabad because of work.. (and delhi and bombay for media) and all the media writes positively about progress in the city. There is a good reason no new industries come up in Calcutta and West Bengal. Therefore when international media talks about Indian growth, B'lore, Chennai and Hyderabad are the places where action happens. Thats what you would write.

If Calcutta wants to be known for its cultural heritage - showcase them to the audience. Wants to show them as progressive city - take a leaf from the other cities and show them how much you have come, and what had progressed. Simply lamenting (and in my opinion blaming someone else) is not going to cut it.

v-

Ncm
09-07-2007, 06:56 PM
NCM,

vil --> bow
ambu --> arrow..

'eithavan irukka ambai noykiraar'
literally: Why leave the archer but blame the arrow.. :b:


oooh...ok got it :b: thankoooooooo :sm05: :b:

emyesbee
09-07-2007, 07:55 PM
Vasan :b:

I wanted to say the same......you said it :b:

Shy
09-07-2007, 08:01 PM
Calcutta has really missed the bus, in a sense. See the offensive PR done by the then CM Naidu and how it created a buzz for Hyderabad. For example: Gates visits Hyderabad because of work.. (and delhi and bombay for media) and all the media writes positively about progress in the city. There is a good reason no new industries come up in Calcutta and West Bengal. Therefore when international media talks about Indian growth, B'lore, Chennai and Hyderabad are the places where action happens. Thats what you would write.

If Calcutta wants to be known for its cultural heritage - showcase them to the audience. Wants to show them as progressive city - take a leaf from the other cities and show them how much you have come, and what had progressed. Simply lamenting (and in my opinion blaming someone else) is not going to cut it.

v-

Deivame... :hug: :sm03: :hug: :sm03:

Shy