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thiru_kk
02-04-2004, 09:15 AM
நாம் அறியாமலே நமக்கு சாதி அடையாளம் குத்தப்படு கிறது! பலருக்கு இந்த அடையாளத்தி னால் வாழ்வு மிக அவலமாய் இருக்கிற்ட கு. சிலருக்கு இதனால் வாழ்வு!

இந்த் கொடிய சாதி அமைப்பு முறையை அழிக்க என்ன செய்யலாம்? நல்ல ஆலோசனைகளை சொல்லுங்கள ேன்! :think:

உங்களுடன்...
திரு

vasan
02-04-2004, 09:29 AM
ரொம்ப கடினமான கேள்வி... சாதி மட்டும் அல்ல, சமுதாயத்தி ல் இருக்கும் இன்னும் பல தவறான வழிமுறைகளு க்கும் (social injustices) விடிவு காலம் வருமா என எனக்கு பெருத்த சந்தேகம்...

திருடனாய் பார்த்து திருந்தாவி ட்டால் திருட்டை ஒழிக்க முடியாது என்பதை போலத்தான் இதுவும்...

dinesh
02-04-2004, 09:56 AM
Education is the key. It is the only thing that enables people to think on their own. And that's what you need. Any community to whom education is denied is the most easy to exploit. Because, it'll be easy to convince them of whatever we say. Especially when you say "You lot are the best in the world, and the others are rubbish because they are from another -----". Every single person in the world has a right-winged, racist part somewhere in his brain. The politicians are just exploiting it.

vennai1
02-04-2004, 11:01 AM
Well.. I know that casteism has been the root cause for a variety of problems

in the current social setup... where the caste leaders have capitalized cheaply

in the name of caste... :evil: :evil:





But from a different perspective, caste sometimes could well be a statement

of culture, traditions, way of life for many... how can you take away all that

just because some crappy leaders are abusing the system... :think: :think:

Shy
02-04-2004, 03:07 PM
Its a difficult question indeed.

Obviously many people are discriminated and hurt because of this caste. In those years people were differentiated because of their work and still they were very bonding to each there.. but somewhere in between the last 200 years or so some evils twisted and thus there were untouchables etc. Gandhiji fought very hard, even though many are angry with him that he was the one who spoiled it. If we think in a good way.. castes is helpful for undermined people to get oppurtunity they wont if there isnt any concession for them. But that shouldnt anyway affect their social life.

Castes eppo yaedanumma vaendaamanu irukara questionae should be analysed.

If there are no castes.. those illterate undermined people can never compete with the otehr castes and hence they can never come up in life.

But entha concession irukarathunaala.. example orus ituation, other castes mainly FC, even though cutoff for 200, 199 yaedutha thaan they get seat in colleges... so poor FCs if they get 180 or something can never dream for a good college.

So its complicated right now.. castes irunthaalum perachina.. ellainaalum problem...

Shy

katteri
02-04-2004, 04:06 PM
Jathigal illaiyadi pappa endru kooriya bharathi...yin kanavu ninavu aagumu enrdu oru kelvi koori than nirkiarathu nam manthail....
Politicans need castesim to get votes, people need casteim to secure jobs and admission....Can we remove enbath u than oru ??????????????

Minik
02-04-2004, 04:35 PM
only in india u can see the caste system. I think now since all youth are educated the youths should come forward and try to put an end to all these caste systems. Just imagine a poor girl who has high mark in plus 2 can't get into a good college b'cos she is F.C what will happen to her career. if there was no caste system then she too can be educated just like anyother people and she will be happy. So all the youths should make up their mind and stop it as for the older generation they might feel angry but now the world is changing its not old people's generation anymore we have to make them understand.

Shy
02-04-2004, 04:42 PM
Jathigal illaiyadi pappa endru kooriya bharathi...yin kanavu ninavu aagumu enrdu oru kelvi koori than nirkiarathu nam manthail....
Politicans need castesim to get votes, people need casteim to secure jobs and admission....Can we remove enbath u than oru ??????????????

Katteri intha line puriyalai :(

Shy

muralipr
02-04-2004, 07:53 PM
Jyathiaii alika naam namakku varum thalaimuraikku vera jyathila kalyanam panni vakalam. For their childhood we can teach them there is no difference in religion.Everything is one.

vennai1
02-04-2004, 09:52 PM
only in india u can see the caste system. I think now since all youth are educated the youths should come forward and try to put an end to all these caste systems. Just imagine a poor girl who has high mark in plus 2 can't get into a good college b'cos she is F.C what will happen to her career. if there was no caste system then she too can be educated just like anyother people and she will be happy. So all the youths should make up their mind and stop it as for the older generation they might feel angry but now the world is changing its not old people's generation anymore we have to make them understand.





Minik... you are grossly mistaken... :nono:

Castes exist in all remote corners of the world just they are called by

different names... even in the so called liberal USA...

which is why affirmative action was adopted ...


To abolish caste to me looks like burning down the house

because of rat problem... :nono:

Casteism dates back to thousands of years... :b:

People give great respect to one's own caste, one's own

rituals, one's own traditions and what not...


Abolishing casteism can be a fancy dream...so abstruse...:b:

p_arunsrinivasan
02-05-2004, 04:10 AM
vennai,

correct aa sonengaa... its a like a social cancer... it really hurts the society...

But at the same time I definitively foresee the end for taking advantage based on caste... already education % is going up and ppl r becoming more cosmopoliton... innum 2 or 3 generations la romba minimal aa irukkum nnu nambaren....

Cheers,
Arun.P.

Shy
02-05-2004, 03:15 PM
I partially agree with vennai that each have theri own customs and traditions and it should be respected as it dates back long back. But what my point is should that interfer in his status in society? About the way people treating etc.... I think someday down the line that should be changed. Elalrum thanga traditions follow panalaam, but others'a matheekanum.

Minik, vennai sonathu correct, USA matum romba super ellam ellai... Native Indians and Mexicians ellam padra paadu irukae. Atleast we have some traditions to be proud of,, aana onnumae ellaama, just with the white skin evanga panralollu irukae...

Shy

thiru_kk
02-06-2004, 04:48 AM
சமீபத்தில் , மதுரை அருகே ஒரு தலித் பெண்ணின் வாயில் "மேல்சாதி" என்று சொல்லப்படு வர் மனிதகழிவை கரைத்து ஊற்றீய கொடுமை நடந்தது!... இப்படி நமக்குள் அடக்கி கொடுமை படுத்துவதி ல் "இந்தியன்", "தமிழன்" என பெருமை வேறு!...

thiru_kk
02-06-2004, 04:57 AM
custom and tradition can be respected! In many countries they keep the tradition and custom (I would call it as cultural values) but they dont have the discriminatory caste system. Culture is different than the caste. Even in culture we need to challenge the worst part! what do you think?

thiru_kk
02-06-2004, 10:34 AM
ஜாதி மிகப்பெரிய சமூக அவலம்

seny
02-06-2004, 01:30 PM
Ellarum munnala sonna mathiri caste system has pro's and cons.. People should start to respect others cultural values and their way of life.. Still in India we have untouchables... First antha problemtha the government must address.. but nama government ennana vote vangurathukkaga peopleloda caste systema exploit pannuranga... First antha politiciansa mathuna pothum...

innum villagesla oru candidate election campaign panalum it will be based on their community or caste... so root cause anga irukunu na namburaen.. we need a political reveloution...

Caste and community system ellam been here for ages... overnight change ellam ethir pakka mudiyathunu ellarkum theriyum... people need to be united under one front called Indians.. ithu eppadi sathiyamagumnu ennaku koncham kuda idea illa..

we do need concession for underprivilaged people.. but it should be merely on the basis of caste and community.. see nama societya FC, BC, MBC, SC and ST nu split pani admission system is based on that.. either for govt job or for admission to any college.. See ippa oruthar belonging to SC or ST is in a responsible position and he is able to give his son or daughter quality standard education then his kids should not be allowed to compete with other students or jobseekers in that category.. so basically nama system of splitting people based on caste and community is wrong.. Instead it should be based on the abilities of the person and the opportunity he/she had to prove themselves.....

Seny

Shri
02-09-2004, 12:27 PM
This caste system can be brought to a end only if all work together towards it. This should also be greatly aided by the government. The govt has divided us into FC BC MBC SC ST etc. this will not help solve the caste system. it merely gives more discrimination. Our system should be revised. Each citizen should be recognised. He should have an ID card and his social status and his background must be known by the government. An SC ST peson can be well educated and be from a good background while an FC person can be from a opposite background. So common categorisation should be stopped and individual attention should be given for all reservations.
Thinking abt this...and considering the present situation our country is in....phew,.... :Ksp:
It is a real long way to go........
Cheers,
Shri

thiru_kk
02-09-2004, 12:56 PM
This caste system can be nrought to a end only if all work togetther towards it. This should also be greatly aided by the government. The govt has divided us into FC BC MBC SC ST etc. this will not help sove the caste system. it merely gives more discrimination. Our system should be revised. Each citizen should be recognised. He should have an ID card and his social status and his background must be known by the government. An SC ST peson can be well educated and be from a good background while an FC person can be from a opposite background. So common categorisation should be stopped and individual attention should be given for all reservations.
Thinking abt this...and considering the present situation our country is in....phew,....
It is a real long way to go........
Cheers,
Shri

I accept that there are issues in the reservation system now. But it also helps the Dalits to get education, employment and oppurtunities. May be we need a better system for improving this. Caste system is rooted in our society more than 2000 years. We need to be justice with people in different aspects of the society to eradicate caste system!

Shri
02-09-2004, 12:58 PM
sathi erandoliya verillai sattungal
needhi valuva nerimuraiyil
Yittar periyor yidadhar ilikulathor
Pattangil ulla padi!

Cheers!
Shri

Shri
02-09-2004, 01:05 PM
We have been saying that caste system is rooted and something hould be done about it. But nothing concrete has been done and the things that have been done have flaws in them!
Thiru_kk said:

Caste system is rooted in our society more than 2000 years. We need to be justice with people in different aspects of the society to eradicate caste system!

This is the common idea all of us have. But have we done enough? Have we done what is right?
Cheers,
Shri

thiru_kk
02-09-2004, 01:06 PM
Caste discrimination has a direct link in terms of exploitation at work. There are millions of dalits and BC people working in farms, small units etc. for the upper caste people. They work as slaves for less income. The dalits working in the agricultural land in Thanjavur, Kumbakonam areas of Tamilnadu get around 40 rupees for more than 12 hours of work a day, while the landowner (upper caste) get more income. They have little voice fear of any attack on them! What kind of system can help this people to get empowered like us?

Shri
02-09-2004, 01:10 PM
Did not get u!

The dalits working in the agricultural land in Thanjavur, Kumbakonam areas of Tamilnadu get around 40 days for more than 12 hours of work, while the landowner (upper caste) get more income.

Can u explain pls?
Cheers!
Shri

thiru_kk
02-09-2004, 01:15 PM
sorry! it's 40 Rupees for more than 12 hours work a day! I already edited in it! thanks

seny
02-09-2004, 01:19 PM
40 rupees fairana amount illa than.. but they are the ones who have to oppose it and say we need more.. i think discussion direction change agi poguthunu??

Seny

thiru_kk
02-09-2004, 01:22 PM
discussion direction not changing! I agree they have to oppose against the discrimination. But in reality it's not possible due to the influence of the caste system! They are powerless to negotiate! Politically powerless!

Shri
02-09-2004, 01:43 PM
When you say

They are powerless to negotiate! Politically powerless!

I agree with you. But according to 1991 census(sorry i am not aware of the current one!)
SC population is 16.33% and ST 28.2% of the total population which is more than 40% of the total population. If they stand together...they can definitely make great changes. After all it is their votes the politicians depend on to get elected.
instead of us giving them protection ...we should urge them to perform. They should come out and fight together. We all have to support them in that effort. There are a lot of struggles going on all over india in this regard. an example


சமீபத்தில் , மதுரை அருகே ஒரு தலித் பெண்ணின் வாயில் "மேல்சாதி" என்று சொல்லப்படு வர் மனிதகழிவை கரைத்து ஊற்றீய கொடுமை நடந்தது!...

She came out with it...that is why we all know about this incident. Such scattered incidents should be brought together and a total uproar...a revolution should come.
Giving SC, ST quotas and protection for them alone...will not help.
Cheers!
Shri

seny
02-09-2004, 01:45 PM
Thiru_kk
i totally agree with you intha vishayathula... they are politically powerlessnu ninanga sonnathu correct than but athukku innoru dimension iruku... avunga than antha situationla irunthu veliya varanum.. vera erallaiyum avungala vara vaika mudiyathu...

take for example independence ellam... yaaru fight panuva independence ku.. antha nattu makkal.. so first avungalukku ulla oru understanding irukanum to oppose those people who are discriminating...

na solluraenu neenga thappa eduthukka kudathu.. ippa oruthar FC category la piranthu irukuravaru farmera iruntha athae thanjavurla... athae landowner avarukum Rs.40 than koduparu.. avar vanthu just because he is FC nu kooda kudukka porathu illa...

so ithu vanthu basically not caste discrimination.. ethu ellam arambichathu money vachi than.. so politically powerless nu sollurathukku pathila financially powerless than correct

Seny

thiru_kk
02-10-2004, 07:24 AM
She came out with it...that is why we all know about this incident. Such scattered incidents should be brought together and a total uproar...a revolution should come.
Giving SC, ST quotas and protection for them alone...will not help.
Cheers!
Shri

I completely agree to this view shri... we need a revolutionary change in our mind, system, politics, attitute, policies etc.

Shri
02-10-2004, 07:49 AM
thiru_kk indha topic la discuss panni poovilirundhu puliya maritteenga pola!
Cheers,
Shri

thiru_kk
02-10-2004, 11:10 AM
na solluraenu neenga thappa eduthukka kudathu.. ippa oruthar FC category la piranthu irukuravaru farmera iruntha athae thanjavurla... athae landowner avarukum Rs.40 than koduparu.. avar vanthu just because he is FC nu kooda kudukka porathu illa...

so ithu vanthu basically not caste discrimination.. ethu ellam arambichathu money vachi than.. so politically powerless nu sollurathukku pathila financially powerless than correct

Seny

Seny,

There is economic power in it I accept that! But who owns the lands? Who is having the political power? who are supported by the system?

After Jeya came in to power in TN, most of the police recruitment from one caste! When ever there is a tension between dalits and that particular caste; the police support the upper caste (sorry that I use these terms eventhough I don't like to). So naturally justice is not there!

Even if you expose a case and put pressure; no action against that attrocities! See in Melavalavu panchayat; why dalits are not able to become panchayat leaders? Is it not because of the strong threats and fear? How one can overcome this when they feel insecured?

Shri
02-10-2004, 11:58 AM
thiru_kk unga point of view enakku puriyalai.
Appo dalits prachanai solve pannanumnna FC community la ullavanga yarum powerful positions la vara koodadha?
Dalits avanga side la irundhu unified a work panninadhane ellathaium solve panna mudium?
Cheers,
Shri

thiru_kk
02-10-2004, 12:26 PM
I agree that dalits should work together as a unified force! No doubt about that! I dont believe that FC can help them! No master helps the slaves!!!

Here, my views are not directed to the FC! I am explaining how the system (government) itself is supportive to the FC... why? Most of them who are in power are from FC or BC!! And dalits have too many factions and too many leaders! Am I right?

seny
02-10-2004, 12:34 PM
Thiru_kk,
Na +1 la irukum pothu we had a scoial program in our school addressing the social evils happening around madurai.. in that we made a survey in a village where still they had untouchability system.... the people who were considered not equals got justice after they followed few little things... all they did was they didnt go work in the farms of those who were responsible for this social injustice.. they were able to make their point heard... and slowly they were able to get their rights... atlast they succeeded in going to the temple, using the same well..

this may sound like movie stuff.. but this is a real incident which i came to know by direct experience... So those people who feel insecured should come up with some ideas to prove their point...

Seny

Shri
02-12-2004, 10:09 AM
That is cool thing to encounter seny. It must have been really fulfiling to see the people fight for their rights and reap the benefits!
hats off to those people in the village who stood up for their rights! :dance: :clap:
standing together and fighting for their rights is the only solution. It dosent matter how many FC and BC people are in power.
I think this is the answer to the question in this topic!
cheers,
Shri