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    Default Learning about the History of God

    Was watching History of God by Amstrong (she had written a book abt this too)

    Me wanted to learn more about this

    Thought we can share our views, beliefs about our God

    My questions

    (1) Monotheism: Christianity is one If so, why do they have God in 3 forms, father, son and holy spirit

    St. Agustus, eaastern christianity prophet explained it as like human performing with 3 things: memory, understand, act - ... God is of 3 forms ? father, son and holyspirit..

    Documentatory says that Greek didnt follow it? so what do they think of these forms?


    (2) Trinity in hinsuism - shiva, vishnu, brahma? How it all started? I read that even in hindusim it started of mono as a supreme God, parameshwara? how it this religion evolve with so many forms of God

    (3) IS this trinity related to trinity of christians?

    (4) Islam - No idol? - kuran is a recitation by prophet? and belived that God recited that to Prophet?

    (5) Followers walk around kabah? in mecca? what does this mean? why do they do it? how long they go around, what do you pray during that time?



    (6) Is this really true? non-Muslims not allowed inside Mecca?



    (7)What is this stone? what does it mean?


    Too many questions rightly said by the author.. its a 4000 year quest by humans

    Shy
    I Geetham

  2. #2

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    (2) Trinity in hinsuism - shiva, vishnu, brahma? How it all started? I read that even in hindusim it started of mono as a supreme God, parameshwara? how it this religion evolve with so many forms of God
    Hinduism is monotheistic. There is only one God, according to Hinduism. What you (we) are familiar with are manifestations of Brahman, who/which we cannot comprehend with our "feeble" minds. For e.g. Shiva represents certain qualities, as does Vishnu etc - but "they" are all one and the same.

    Edit: A slightly more detailed answer.

    (3) IS this trinity related to trinity of christians?
    What? How did you even come up with that comparison? Short answer - of course not! Plus, what is now known as Christianity came about eons after Hinduism arose!

    (6) Is this really true? non-Muslims not allowed inside Mecca?
    Yes, on pain of death.

    (7)What is this stone? what does it mean?
    Kaaba. It has been the focal point of worship for pagan Arabs before the advent of Islam.
    Last edited by coolian; 10-07-2007 at 04:05 PM.
    Over and out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by coolian View Post
    Hinduism is monotheistic. There is only one God, according to Hinduism. What you (we) are familiar with are manifestations of Brahman, who/which we cannot comprehend with our "feeble" minds. For e.g. Shiva represents certain qualities, as does Vishnu etc - but "they" are all one and the same.
    In that documentary, they say that while judaism was evolving with isaac and so one, appo eastern world, there was lots of developments, like Buddha and hinduism which was similar to the pagan in egypt... having many forms of God for a particular purpose... Like they have Fertily God, AfterLife God, Rain God.. hinduism had it forms too appadinu sonaanga... Brahma is creator, Vishnu the preserver & Shiva the destroyer.

    Plus... we dont see them as one ???? do we? I guess its polytheism thaan

    Edit: A slightly more detailed answer.
    Danke

    What? How did you even come up with that comparison? Short answer - of course not! Plus, what is now known as Christianity came about eons after Hinduism arose!
    No cools.. around 300BC thaan christianity was shaping up too, when Mahabharatha was done and Shiva and vishnu became more important deities no?

    Yes, on pain of death.
    WOW.... ange appo eppadi irukkumnu outside worldke theriyaathu illai why they dont allow us.. like we do... all are one thaane

    Kaaba. It has been the focal point of worship for pagan Arabs before the advent of Islam.
    Danke again

    Shy
    I Geetham

  4. #4

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    hinduism had it forms too appadinu sonaanga... Brahma is creator, Vishnu the preserver & Shiva the destroyer.
    Plus... we dont see them as one ???? do we? I guess its polytheism thaan
    There is only one God. As for "do we?" - to each, his own. If you are of the camp that believes in worshipping multiple gods [aka "Shiva", "Vishnu", "Krishna" etc], that's your call. But Hinduism does not preach polytheism. Pantheism is probably the term you are looking for.

    WOW.... ange appo eppadi irukkumnu outside worldke theriyaathu illai why they dont allow us.. like we do... all are one thaane
    A few non-Muslims have managed to sneak in. Very rare though, due to random checks they do. As for preventing non-Muslims from entering, who cares, their country, their religion, their laws, I couldn't care less.

    No cools.. around 300BC thaan christianity was shaping up too, when Mahabharatha was done and Shiva and vishnu became more important deities no?
    No. But I'd let someone else answer.
    Over and out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by coolian View Post
    There is only one God. As for "do we?" - to each, his own. If you are of the camp that believes in worshipping multiple gods [aka "Shiva", "Vishnu", "Krishna" etc], that's your call. But Hinduism does not preach polytheism. Pantheism is probably the term you are looking for.
    me never knew such exists Pantheism....

    hm... me need to read more into.. thanks cools

    A few non-Muslims have managed to sneak in. Very rare though, due to random checks they do. As for preventing non-Muslims from entering, who cares, their country, their religion, their laws, I couldn't care less.

    No. But I'd let someone else answer.
    appadi ellam think panra naala thaan too much apart'a intha world irukku... then all fight over religion, holyplace etc...

    We should get to know everything

    Shy
    I Geetham

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shy View Post

    We should get to know everything

    Shy

    me too

  7. #7

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    appadi ellam think panra naala thaan too much apart'a intha world irukku... then all fight over religion, holyplace etc...

    We should get to know everything
    I'm all for openness and dialog, and have always tried to learn as much as I can about other cultures. But it takes two hands to clap. If certain societies choose to remain closed, there's only so much the rest of the world can do.
    Over and out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by coolian View Post
    I'm all for openness and dialog, and have always tried to learn as much as I can about other cultures. But it takes two hands to clap. If certain societies choose to remain closed, there's only so much the rest of the world can do.

    I agree..

    Suha... first post la naraiya questions kettu irukenee.. athukku reply panalaiyaa nee?

    Shy
    I Geetham

  9. #9

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    (1) Monotheism: Christianity is one If so, why do they have God in 3 forms, father, son and holy spirit

    St. Agustus, eaastern christianity prophet explained it as like human performing with 3 things: memory, understand, act - ... God is of 3 forms ? father, son and holyspirit..

    Documentatory says that Greek didnt follow it? so what do they think of these forms?
    Armstrong presents these views mostly based on historical practices of various christians around the world - which makes sense for a historian. In addition to that, being a TV program, and books meant for popularity rather than its scholarly value, the use of hyperbole, affirmative and often misleading statements or opinions are rather too many. But if you would like to understand what is christianity, history provides but only a muddy picture of truth.

    A simpler and clear exposition on some fundamental aspects and beliefs as is understood by nearly all christians can be found in several sources - try "mere christianity' by C.S. Lewis for example.

    What? How did you even come up with that comparison? Short answer - of course not! Plus, what is now known as Christianity came about eons after Hinduism arose!
    Jesus Christ was born some two thousand years or so ago. But christianity (or the Christian belief of God) was not born with the birth of Jesus. Most fundamental of christian belief is that Jesus was born, fulfilling the promise God made, really at the beginning of mankind. If you would, that makes a serious distinction between when and what it means.

    The bible after all begins with these words: In the beginning (of time, really)..

    ~~~~~~~~~~~

    History of God is really a ridiculous title. History has a meaning when there is a beginning and end - that is it derives its value by ascribing a time coordinate to events. Does God have time? Is there a birth and death and beginning and end?

    So far as I know, Christian belief (in that aspect practically every christian's belief) is that God doesn't have a beginning or an end. He is inifinite. In other words, God is the beginning and end.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    I don't mean to discourage viewing the program or reading the book. It is of much value in understanding the history of our beliefs (rather than the history of God), and the birth and growth of organized religion.

    Philosophical thoughts might differ - but understanding organized religion and its current phase (in relation to its own past) is an important area of study. Both for personal benefit as well as in larger context of international communal relations.

    Vasan
    Short Measures
    It is a wretched taste to be gratified with mediocrity when the excellent lies before us - Isaac Disraeli

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    Thanks vasan...

    Quote Originally Posted by vasan View Post
    Armstrong presents these views mostly based on historical practices of various christians around the world - which makes sense for a historian. In addition to that, being a TV program, and books meant for popularity rather than its scholarly value, the use of hyperbole, affirmative and often misleading statements or opinions are rather too many. But if you would like to understand what is christianity, history provides but only a muddy picture of truth.
    Whatever they could gather, its a fact or close to fact.. but never a myth() is what the say isnt? They cant just make up something for the sake of gaining TPR or selling records I guess...

    A simpler and clear exposition on some fundamental aspects and beliefs as is understood by nearly all christians can be found in several sources - try "mere christianity' by C.S. Lewis for example.
    More than what is christianity I wanted to know how every other religion evolved... is this book about how christianity evolved?

    Jesus Christ was born some two thousand years or so ago. But christianity (or the Christian belief of God) was not born with the birth of Jesus(1). Most fundamental of christian belief is that Jesus was born, fulfilling the promise God made, really at the beginning of mankind. If you would, that makes a serious distinction between when and what it means.
    The bible after all begins with these words: In the beginning (of time, really)..

    ~~~~~~~~~~~

    History of God is really a ridiculous title(2). History has a meaning when there is a beginning and end - that is it derives its value by ascribing a time coordinate to events. Does God have time? Is there a birth and death and beginning and end? (3)


    So far as I know, Christian belief (in that aspect practically every christian's belief) is that God doesn't have a beginning or an end. He is inifinite. In other words, God is the beginning and end. (4)

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I disagree...

    Hmm.. this is where I wanted to learn more. There is a history see(2).... If theres no begining, then there shouldnt be a starting point of christian belief(1).. When moses or even before that, when pagan Gods were followed and judiasm was shaping up, then that shud be the begining, if one feel that theres no begining... (2)

    the history we are.. or atleast i am trying to learn is that christian belief shaped up at some point and from your (2) and (4) It means somepoint after jesus... And thats history and I dont think thus the title is wrong

    I don't mean to discourage viewing the program or reading the book. It is of much value in understanding the history of our beliefs (rather than the history of God), and the birth and growth of organized religion.

    Philosophical thoughts might differ - but understanding organized religion and its current phase (in relation to its own past) is an important area of study. Both for personal benefit as well as in larger context of international communal relations.
    Vasan
    All fights somewhere or other lead to ones belief in this world.. Its better to understand how it evolved than learning each's now... Ofcourse it would be much more organised and detailed than before. Basically my intentions are to learn how these religions evolved and how it came to this point rather than what they are upto to now.. So may be its not spiritual or anything, but more like understanding history

    BTW, my (1) question kku mudincha reply pannungo.. me wanted to know how mono and 3 forms are explained

    Shy
    I Geetham

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    Whatever they could gather, its a fact or close to fact.. but never a myth() is what the say isnt? They cant just make up something for the sake of gaining TPR or selling records I guess...
    They don't have to manufacture information. Distorting the truth, misrepresentation, omitting to present other useful information will create as wrong a picture as an outright lie. For example if Armstrong described that (the belief is trinity) as christianity then that was wrong - because that is not what christianity is all about.

    Sure it is a fundamental belief (trinity is), but by that what every one means is that God (only one God !!) whose activities and interactions with human kind are best understood in terms of three personalities "Father, Son and Spirit". For example: Your (or my) mom is daughter, wife and mom. Who is she? Is she three people? No. She is one person.

    But that is only one explanation - expressed in analogous human- relationships. So such an explanation does not hold good (which is why every christian you speak to will give one similar analogy, every one of them imperfect in its own way). So, what is the belief? God is only one. Father, Son and Spirit are simply 'names' for God's actions in our lives we associate with. There are no three God's in Christianity. Only one.

    Some times people have gotten carried over with various analogies - in fact, people have killed others over these beliefs. Every one trying to stuff god in to cubicles of their own understanding - and being arrogant, not accepting others views and killing for it. Pretty shameful, really.

    ~~~~~~~~~~

    It means somepoint after jesus... And thats history and I dont think thus the title is wrong
    Title is wrong, because it is not talking about Jesus or God. It is talking about how the organized christian church is dealing with it. History of christianity, perhaps, but not history of God.

    History of Christianity and Chrisitan church/beliefs is a well written subject, teacher. Any local library will have enough books on it. Plenty of reliable webpages too. Presenting all sorts of views - including Christian viewpoints, Acadamic viewpoints that don't ascribe to christian beliefs, and view points opposing christian beliefs. Easy place to start would be Wikipedia (or Encyclopedia Brittanica) for example. Most of them list various sources at the end. Those are good places to start..

    v-
    Short Measures
    It is a wretched taste to be gratified with mediocrity when the excellent lies before us - Isaac Disraeli

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    Quote Originally Posted by vasan View Post
    They don't have to manufacture information. Distorting the truth, misrepresentation, omitting to present other useful information will create as wrong a picture as an outright lie. For example if Armstrong described that (the belief is trinity) as christianity then that was wrong - because that is not what christianity is all about.

    Sure it is a fundamental belief (trinity is), but by that what every one means is that God (only one God !!) whose activities and interactions with human kind are best understood in terms of three personalities "Father, Son and Spirit". For example: Your (or my) mom is daughter, wife and mom. Who is she? Is she three people? No. She is one person.

    But that is only one explanation - expressed in analogous human- relationships. So such an explanation does not hold good (which is why every christian you speak to will give one similar analogy, every one of them imperfect in its own way). So, what is the belief? God is only one. Father, Son and Spirit are simply 'names' for God's actions in our lives we associate with. There are no three God's in Christianity. Only one.

    Some times people have gotten carried over with various analogies - in fact, people have killed others over these beliefs. Every one trying to stuff god in to cubicles of their own understanding - and being arrogant, not accepting others views and killing for it. Pretty shameful, really.

    ~~~~~~~~~~
    thanks for the great explanation for my question below

    [
    (1) Monotheism: Christianity is one If so, why do they have God in 3 forms, father, son and holy spirit

    St. Agustus, eaastern christianity prophet explained it as like human performing with 3 things: memory, understand, act - ... God is of 3 forms ? father, son and holyspirit..(1)

    Documentatory says that Greek didnt follow it? so what do they think of these forms?
    BTW, I never mentioned that amstrong or the documentary said anything about trinity. When discussing the evolution of this particular religions belief.. thats how it started is what they said I even wrote (1) the example that was given to understand this like the example of a woman you gave in yours So I dont think they are lying or misinterpreting anything.. but just giving us the trail oh how this religion evolved

    Title is wrong, because it is not talking about Jesus or God. It is talking about how the organized christian church is dealing with it. History of christianity, perhaps, but not history of God.
    (1) first of all, we are not taking about one sect of belief in this world, yeah? So why do you think that its related to that alone? If you see my first post, I didnt anywhere mention any particular belief.. but just asked few questions from it

    (2) In fact the documentary was good in that way that it started from pagan, to judaisim, to roman, to christianity and finally ended in islam... Inbetween it concentrated a chapter on eastern religions like buddism and hindusim too.. So lets not MISINTEREPT here Its not about Jesus or how any church is run In fact as I said in my previous post, I am not interested at that at all I dont want to concentrate on any one belief too, coz I have one of my own and thats the reason its named History of God everyones belief about God.. everyones thought about it... Not JUST ONE.

    History of Christianity and Chrisitan church/beliefs is a well written subject, teacher. Any local library will have enough books on it. Plenty of reliable webpages too. Presenting all sorts of views - including Christian viewpoints, Acadamic viewpoints that don't ascribe to christian beliefs, and view points opposing christian beliefs. Easy place to start would be Wikipedia (or Encyclopedia Brittanica) for example. Most of them list various sources at the end. Those are good places to start..

    v-
    I am sure.. so as other beliefs in this world right now... All are well written and organized right now No qualms there. Its not what the beliefs are about NOW.. its not what they follow NOW...

    Its about how human race defined their individual beliefs in history... only because of that you have a well written, organized religion now

    Shy
    Last edited by Shy; 10-08-2007 at 05:12 AM.
    I Geetham

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    Default Histry of God

    I think The heading will be more appropiate if it is [TO Know about GOD]
    Can some one including all religions explain who is god as explained in their religion
    Blunex

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    Monotheism is an extremely recent development in human history. Even the old jews were polytheists until they started worshipping only yehovah, hence started the judeo-christian monotheism. And allah used to be one of many arabic gods before mohammed and his soldiers killed everyone who tried to oppose his totalitarian doctrine (that coincidentally DESTROYED) north-indian culture.

    As far as hinduism is concerned - advaitic hinduism (adi shankara)worship many gods and is hence polytheistic in a way, but all the gods are the manifestation of ONE beyond all names and hence advaitic polytheism is also monism (only Brahman is real, "mono - one"). But Brahman is not "God", because gods are supernatural beings, that's why god has a plural - gods, but Brahman or Consciousness or Universal Awareness or Absolute Reality have not, so it would be better to use these terms for Brahman and not God (beside everything else the word god is related to the world good, meaning a god is beneficial being as opposed to demons, while Brahman, unlike Gods is beyond all dualities).
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    There is neither creation nor destruction, neither destiny nor free will, neither path nor achievement. This is the final truth.” Ramana Maharshi

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    btw, by saying Brahman is not God, I made a mistake. Brahman Is God, but It is also the servant of God and the act of service and everything else in fact since the Upanishads proclaim that Brahman MANIFESTED as the world and not created the world.
    Anyway, some christians and muslims might condemn you to hell if you say it loudly

    but hey who cares about a narrow mind
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    There is neither creation nor destruction, neither destiny nor free will, neither path nor achievement. This is the final truth.” Ramana Maharshi

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    thanks for sharing

  17. #17

    Default Learning about God

    Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.
    Let it all go: Fear, doubt, & disbelief.
    FREE YOUR MIND!

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    I have learned a lot form your post. Thanks for sharing.

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