US Presidential Election - 2008
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    Default US Presidential Election - 2008

    US Presidential Election - 2008


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~`


    Okie people.. In a couple of days Beijing 2008 is all over and out..

    and White House 2008 begins in earnest..

    ~~~~~~~~~~

    So far:

    Sen. Barack Obama is to be the Dem Candidate
    Sen. John McCain is going to be the GOP candidate.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    We will put up a poll sometime after both the candidates pick their running mates. Lets see how well we can predict. Also.. any comments or issues you want to raise about the election.. go ahead.. post/talk/rant/rave.. Its all yours..

    This forum is like democracy. More people participate, more effective it is. .

    v-

    ps: Made the thread sticky. Will pull it out after Nov..
    Short Measures
    It is a wretched taste to be gratified with mediocrity when the excellent lies before us - Isaac Disraeli

  2. #2

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    Obama chooses Biden

    MSNBC staff and news service reports
    updated 32 minutes ago

    WASHINGTON - The Associated Press has learned that Delaware Senator Joe Biden is Barack Obama's choice to be his vice presidential running mate.
    Biden, who has served in the Senate since being elected at the age of 29, is the chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee and will add his foreign policy expertise to the Democratic ticket.

    In recent years, he has traveled to Afghanistan and Pakistan two times and to Iraq eight times. He returned Monday from a fact-finding trip to Georgia.

    Personal Facts:

    • Name: Joseph R. Biden
    • Born: Nov. 20, 1942, Scranton, Pa.
    • Education: University of Delaware, history and political science; Syracuse University College of Law
    • Religion: Roman Catholic
    • Occupation: U.S. Senator from Delaware since 1973

    Source: msnbc.com wires and staff research.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~

    MSNBC.com adds:


    The Delaware Democrat’s long-windedness occasionally leads him to make remarks that prove to be embarrassing.

    In 2007, he seemed to be talking down to Obama by calling him “clean” and “articulate.”

    In 2006 he said, “In Delaware, the largest growth in population is Indian-Americans moving from India. You cannot go to a 7-Eleven or a Dunkin' Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent. I'm not joking.”

    What...

    v-
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    I was so happy when McCain chose a woman as his right hand- then I saw the Gun-totting-so-called-family-values-upholding- lady on the telly and she freaks me out

    I kinda wanted McCain to win since the demise of the Rotham-Clinton Campaign - but now - I think NOT!
    She's too scary! it's like another bush on steroids with lipstick and a fancy bun


    lipstick and pig ...
    Cum recte vivis, ne cures verba malorum


  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluelotus View Post
    She's too scary! it's like another and a fancy bun


    lipstick and pig ...
    Well-timed silence has more eloquence than speech....

  5. #5

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    lady on the telly and she freaks me out


    Remember.. you wanted all the shop owners to get guns? Now you are freaked out about Lara Croft, eh?

    Texas, Alaska, Montana and Wyoming are states where hunting is a religion second only to fishing. Close to 80 percent of long time residents (at least two or three generations) have guns, or know how to shoot and hunt. And if you notice, number of shooting deaths (high school and other scary shootings).. there will be practically none from these states.

    Makes one think, doesn't it?

    v-
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    It is a wretched taste to be gratified with mediocrity when the excellent lies before us - Isaac Disraeli

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    Mccain made a stupid mistake choosing Palin.. so that they can tap all the hillary women followers..

    What did he think.. women stupid.. will vote any woman...


    Watching the forum.. first time they are together... lets see

    Shy
    I Geetham

  7. #7

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    Mccain made a stupid mistake choosing Palin
    hmm.. think so teacher?

    Obama and Biden camp is already scrambling to counter the effect.. Practically non-stop every news and print media is talking about Palin's effect (some suggesting she may even overshadow McCain)..

    What is more interesting? McCain has erased the 10 pt lead on opinion polls Obama enjoyed.. McCain and Palin's speeches were watched by more number of people than ever by a republican nominee (McCain even topped Obama)..

    And among the vp-choices.. when was the last time anybody talked about Joe Biden in the past ten days? And how many people have talked about Palin? Spending no money on ads, but still staying on top of news is the true game..

    I think McCain made a bold and politically savvy choice. No body knew or thought about her.. and she is stealing everyone's thunder..

    Would she make a good VP? Who knows and who cares... does it help mccain? I think so..

    v-
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    It is a wretched taste to be gratified with mediocrity when the excellent lies before us - Isaac Disraeli

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    Ofcourse, lot many watched it.. its just curiosity, I don't think it will help them in 54 days. When it boils down to actually if she can take over hillary's position - hell no..
    shes pro-gun and anti-gay and pro-choice, hillary wasn't.

    Also ofcourse she will take over mccain..thats what the job of VP's are.. to be the bulldog while Prez approaches it balancedly.

    Just because they talk about a person because of curiousity or because shes hot and her husband is a hulk or because her baby is a down syndrome and still she chose to keep it or because her teen daughter is pregnant or because of her scandal how she used her authority to fire her BIL after her sister divorce does not MEAN, people will vote for her.

    End of the day, they need to feel comfortable that this immature governor of a least populated place can take the job of presidentship if need be.. Is she experienced to handle the job.. Ofcourse BIDEN is ;-)

    Shy
    I Geetham

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    And this lady just gave interview that any Russian invasion of a NATO state, USA should go on war ... how stupid is that ;-)
    I Geetham

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shy View Post
    And this lady just gave interview that any Russian invasion of a NATO state, USA should go on war ... how stupid is that ;-)
    hmmm since neither Georgia nor Ukraine are NATO states - I don't care

    Frankly I'd support medvedev-putin on their decision to role out the big guns in aid of South Ossetians.
    Georgian central gov was taking the mickey - most of those state borders were made up by Stalin to make it easier to conquer all those tiny little nations, but that doesn't mean you should go around intimidating the Russian minority...
    They're in general my least favourite ppl - and I would usually applaud any ex-USSR state which manages to stand up to the Russian bear - but there are limits

    (in any case the South Ossetians probably want to get rid of the Russian tanks too- since in the end everybody knows that the Russian Federation just like its ancestor the Red Army is nobody's friend )

    Anyway - scary woman is probably being arrogant about it cos her son is in the army


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~
    choosing her as a his VP was a brilliant move by McCain - but I wish he'd picked a less scarier person
    Cum recte vivis, ne cures verba malorum


  11. #11

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    shes pro-gun and anti-gay and pro-choice, hillary wasn't.
    I am not quite sure why you don't like Ms.Palin, teacher.. but for the record:

    Mr. Obama/Mrs. Clinton/Mr. Biden - are all of them for right to own gun, just as Ms. Palin and Mr. McCain are. No difference whatsoever. Right to own guns is guaranteed in US Constitution. If any of the candidates speaks up against it, he/she is not winning anything in US.

    In other words, no difference between Palin and Obama (or Clinton).

    Same thing with pro-life/pro-choice. First: Palin is pro-life and not pro-choice as you mentioned. Secondly, all of them (every candidate since roe-v-wade) have supported the supreme court decision on that. Again no-difference. Obama/Clinton/Biden.. none of them EVER supported total pro-choice. No difference.

    Ms. Palin is anti-gay? How is that? Anti-gay is discrimination, and a criminal offense. If she is against gay-marriage, sure she is.. but then so are most states in US. The fact of the matter is, that such decisions are NOT federal, and all the candidates want to pass the buck and keep it that way, no matter what their personal opinion on this topic is. Obama (who supports gay-marriages) and McCain (who doesn't) are both saying that it is the business of individual states, and not federal govt.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~

    scary woman is probably being arrogant about it cos her son is in the army
    Being a bit unfair, aren't you? Does British Monarch feel arrogant because her sons/grandsons are in the army/navy? Does Mr. Biden, McCain feel arrogant too, because their sons are in the army? Or would you accuse them of cowardice to save their children?

    Truth is, all the candidates so far have accused Russia (so did the whole of European leadership, if you noticed).. Every one has been trying one thing or the other (from cutting down aid to throwing Russia out of NATO).. Only Palin wants to include Georgia into NATO's umbrella.

    That is neither war-mongering nor is silly... Just Palin's opinion..

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Oh.. on an interesting (irrelevant, ofcourse) note.. : Angelina Jolie loves guns. Has them plenty at her home.. And supports gun ownership and is willing to shoot any one to death if they come to harm her children.

    Just noting it in passing..

    v-
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    Quote Originally Posted by vasan View Post
    Truth is, all the candidates so far have accused Russia (so did the whole of European leadership, if you noticed).. Every one has been trying one thing or the other (from cutting down aid to throwing Russia out of NATO).. Only Palin wants to include Georgia into NATO's umbrella.

    v-


    You do realise that Nato is the North Atlantic Treaty organisation was set up during the cold war period to defend those countries against the threat posed by the "reds"
    Of course everyone is blaming Russia- it's another case of the Giant Russian Federation bullying its ex-states.
    Whatever action Russia takes against Ukraine, Georgia or any other ex USSR state, it will be opposed by EU leaders
    especially since at least a 1/3 of EU countries come from the old communist block- they all have rather strong anti-russian feelings

    Georgia and Ukraine are hardly as stable as Poland to be even considered for NATO any time soon- but a person like Palin may hasten that process and make a total hash of things...

    Despite what EU leaders chose to do- I still think that the Russian Federation did have to do something about the whole south-ossetia business- however excessive force was used which was not warranted.
    It does highlight the very precarious nature of EU politics

    USA maybe the most influential country in the world - yet these days it always comes across as a country run by less than adequate diplomatic politicians.
    But then again - the EU countries fair no better- Brown, Berlusconi, Sarkozy

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~

    What I meant ...(when I said that she used the fact that her child is in the army to be arrogant about it )
    ... was that Mrs Palin is behaving as if that gave her the right to declare war and potentially put on the line fire thousands of soldiers lives so very very carelessly ...

    The Queen has no right to interfere in affairs of state - despite being head of both church and state.
    Harry can go and prance around in army fatigue for all he wants - she will not mention it
    Cum recte vivis, ne cures verba malorum


  13. #13

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    that Mrs Palin is behaving as if that gave her the right to declare war and potentially put on the line fire thousands of soldiers lives so very very carelessly ...
    And what I meant is that attributing Ms. Palin a motive, that she is thinks she has a right because her son is in the army, as opposed to she is doing it for any number of other motives (including whatever motives GWBush, and other NATO leaders have)...

    You are being unfair in ascribing such a motive. You may not like her or agree with her, but you can't dismiss her arguments citing wrong motives.

    This is also a reason (attributing motives) is the reason why some US folks don't believe Obama will be strong on national security. After all he has never participated in a war, and didn't vote for Iraq war.. how could he know about security is their argument.

    In my opinion, both arguments are wrong. Obama's knowledge/ability/committment on security matters has very little relevance on his lack of military service, and nor does Palin's comments motivated by her presumed arrogance of a mom with a son in the army.

    A easy going vasan would recommend: Palin does not declare war. Including Georgia under the protective umbrella of NATO would help deal with Russia's military adventures against former sov-block nations.

    Now is Russia justified in its actions? Is Georgia really a victim? Is the EU/NATO leadership right on thier tone or are they being smaller copies of Chamberlain? I have no idea..

    I am biased against Putin. Practically all the news I have heard (from US - MSNBC, CNN, LATimes etc and BBC) have portrayed him as a dictator.. So there.. my comments will be colored by such a bias.

    v-
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    It is a wretched taste to be gratified with mediocrity when the excellent lies before us - Isaac Disraeli

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    Vasan,

    I have nothing against a woman taking such a position in USA. Its just that palin is not the right choice and it sure hurts when they think(women are stupid) that all those clinton votes will be grabbed by placing her.. Shes a trailer trash and with McCain a 4 times cancer survivor, its really scary to think such a person would be the president. A hockey mom, pitbull or pig with lipstick, I don't care.. but is she the material to sit down to make decisions for this country when it comes down to handling korea, russia, china, iraq, iran, whatever...

    I don't think so.

    We have only 3 percent of the world's oil reserves and this smarty Palin thinks we can drill our way out of our oil addiction by exploiting the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.

    Whenb maany of american women oppose the war in Iraq not only because of the unnecessary loss of life but also because of its toll on the economy, here shes ready to start another one.

    Above all, she thinks she can convert Gays.. how is that????

    Last edited by Shy; 09-14-2008 at 06:44 PM.
    I Geetham

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shy View Post
    Vasan,
    Shes a trailer trash and with McCain a 4 times cancer survivor, its really scary to think such a person would be the president. A hockey mom, pitbull or pig with lipstick, I don't care.. but is she the material to sit down to make decisions for this country when it comes down to handling korea, russia, china, iraq, iran, whatever...

    Woooo....some serious discussion going on here.....

    Trailer Trash !! Pretty volatile accusation...Where did ya read that!!

    Scary to see a 4 time cancer survivor surviving a term?? Maybe even a dead Mccain is better than GW.....!!

    Anyway its going to be an interesting next 50 odd days!!

    A lot of disgruntled Hillary supporters on the middle.....in rural America who voted for Hillary.....quite a lot of seniors in that...remember about 70% of seniors in rural voters voted for Hillary....could possibly get attracted to Palin (or anybody with strong conservative bg)....trying to get women supporters from Hillary?? That probably is a small factor.....

    I thought Biden's speech was very compelling and impactful....I have read he is worth about 500K in assets after being a senator for about 20 years or so....he does seem credible....!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MadTownDude View Post
    Woooo....some serious discussion going on here.....

    Trailer Trash !! Pretty volatile accusation...Where did ya read that!!

    Scary to see a 4 time cancer survivor surviving a term?? Maybe even a dead Mccain is better than GW.....!!

    Pardon my language.. but I hate this..[ there are many hits about this.. a simple google would help.]

    Very true.. Thats why I say VOTE my OBAMA ;-)
    I Geetham

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shy View Post

    Very true.. Thats why I say VOTE my OBAMA ;-)
    I honestly do not care whether the background of the future US president is a humble trailer or a mansion in the bahamas
    but I do wish it would be a mathematician specially one known for his or her ability to apply satistics and take controlled risks so that world economy doesn't come crashing around our ears
    I doubt Obama would be any different in the financial department compared to Mc Cain or Palin....

    there goes another bank (yes, I know a little late - but it must be pointed out nevertheless )

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    If I was an american living in the vast american countryside (do they even call it countryside )
    I would probably be attracted to Palin. Even if I differed with her on many things, I would be more than convinced that she would be able to empathise with my lifestyle- as opposed to highflying Obama

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    thattha you must understand that regardless of whether or not the action of the russian federation is justified- the russian federation will always remain a threat to the European Union and the ex-soviet block.
    history is relentless in reminding us that one cannot trust the russians- even if it means joining hands temporarily to win a war.
    All EU policies will always be coloured by it past.
    But I hope that regardless of who is elected that neither Ukraine, Georgia, Beloruss or any other ex-soviet state which are yet to experience the complete madness of a "free" market economy and "democracy" and other "social reforms" do not join NATO.
    NA TO was set up for a purpose - which may or may not be redundant-
    One shoudln't abuse NAto membership just because they oppose the russian federation.
    perhaps exclusiveness isn't a bad thing

    Right at this moment we are all unsure of whom to trust ...caution is rather necessary

    (Thattha please - you're probably one of the few blokes I know who can look beyond media bias )


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    I still think that if you all elected me as the ultimate world ruler- this planet would be a much much better place for you
    "vote for me! "
    Cum recte vivis, ne cures verba malorum


  18. #18

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    Blue..

    I am not saying Ms. Palin is right and NATO should follow her lead. All I am saying is that when you look at it, her opinions are no different from any of the current NATO leadership or Presidential candidates back in US.. Sure, specifics differ, but desire to contain Russia is practically the same. Everyone took a tough line on Russia - whatever that means..

    My suggestion is that people's criticism of Palin on these grounds is rather untenable. Every one's reactions are just about the same, and only she is getting snowed under.. Thats all.

    Now, would she make a good VP? Poor VP? pathetic one? Who knows??? There are only two answers yes or no. And I have 50% chance of making it right, whichever I choose..

    Still think that McCain picked her up as some gimmick..

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Biden is great etc.. perhaps. But I wonder why he couldn't win any state when he ran for primary. Heck, if he can't get one state among Dems, what makes him a great candidate now? Biden was/is also the Senate Chair for foreign policies. Hasn't accomplished much in the last 8 years, has he? Or is being senate chair is meaningless - which means people's claims for his experience is worthless? What is it? Incompetency or inexperience?

    On the other hand if you say Hillary... Now she won practically half the votes, and has skills, and experience to go with it.. But then.. its lots of water under a long bridge so to speak.

    ~~~~~~~~~

    Anyways... logic defies arguments in US politics.

    To me the elections seem pretty close at the moment. Would be very interesting to see how it turns out. And whatever the results may be, I don't think its going to make a bit of a difference because of political leadership.

    Any difference in current state has to come from other sources - economy is already rock bottom, it can only go up.. war in Iraq is pretty much done - both dems and reps and Gen. Petraeus want to close the shop in 2011.. and there will be other economic forces that allow/stop drilling for oil.. Prezs are dummies in the world.

    Pessimism.. Thy name is Vasan..

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Oh.. one silver lining..

    Voting for Blue atleast gives a pretty president, (and a 'tyrannical' ruler.. ).. which is good..
    Although to win, she will have to change her name to red-white-and-blue..


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Thats why I say VOTE my OBAMA ;-)
    Teacher.. Obama girl, huh?

    By the time I may become eligible to vote.... Chelsea Clinton or Meg McCain could be running for presidency, and USA may be at war with penguins in antartica.. So, at the moment and possibly all through the rest of my life, only arguments against all the candidates from me..

    v-
    Short Measures
    It is a wretched taste to be gratified with mediocrity when the excellent lies before us - Isaac Disraeli

  19. #19
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    Palin is an easy target which turned up out of nowhere - all the others already had knives thrown at them that's why thattha

    I'm not sure it even matters whether the democrats turn up at the white house or the Republicans- Clinton's administration didn;t have to deal with 11th of september- although I'm completely clueless about his other foreign policies- I doubt they were any different to GWB's ones
    He probably just carried them out with a bit more diplomacy or charisma ...

    Be it McCain or Obama- the USA are still going to be one of the biggest poluters and still not clean up their act
    Cum recte vivis, ne cures verba malorum


  20. #20

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    At a recent party I spoke to a few Wisconsin old timers....liberals....and I heard them all very very excited about Obama....one of them(easily 70+ very clear thinking young white man) even said...."I have never been as excited about the future of this country due to this man like this year"....!!Clearly this man is drawing a lot of attention....all around....

    I thought Repubs are being the same....trying to raise the security issue as the biggest issue....a kind of fear psychosis or whatever that is.....

    I am surprised the polls are keeping it close.....

    wrt to India....Whoever wins....I hope they can pressurise the Pakis to close down all their terror producing factories!!

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