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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by jvivek
    I think India and Pakistan will unite eventually, but not North and South Indians - in the sense the bad feeling will never go. Its sad but true
    All this is due to partiality by the north indians..............
    They will not allow to speak in Tamil in Parliament(Mulayam Singh Yadav episode)....
    Democracy

  2. #22

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    Suryalover wrote
    All this is due to partiality by the north indians..............
    They will not allow to speak in Tamil in Parliament(Mulayam Singh Yadav episode)....
    Democracy
    Nope , i think it is not partiality as we have so many languages , i think English will be the best option to converse in tha parliment, I believe that if any members don`t know english their speech is translated for others and vice versa. is`nt it so ??

  3. #23
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    Yes it is true priyarock.

    But the others will speak in Hindi( watch a session), even though they know english.

  4. #24

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    Athan namba alungala thiruthave mudiyathe !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! , BETTER to chuck out all these Grandpas from politics and elect young bloods, there must be a law which does not allow after a certain age limit to be in politics, (athuvum kashtam tham udane democracy- nu koral uduvange)..

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    Surya, I dont think we hate hindi. simply put, we feel that hindi is not necessary for us(Tamil people). andhra people most of them they know hindi..not because its the national language.. but because there are more muslims in hyderabad and hence hindi became a must in that state. Kerala people mostly know english and malayalam same like us. Bangalore since it was a center place for IT.. hindi widely spread again not because its out national language.

    So the main reason south indians dont know hindi is not because of hatred but becuase there was no neccessity.

    Even though each state has a language.. most of the states in india hindi was the mother tongue and hence it eventually became national language. If tamil was mother tongue in most of the states.. ennaiku national language tamil'la irunthu irukkum...

    Also it was not because of partiality we converse in hindi in parliment.

    Obviously I wont vote to talk in english in MY country's parliment, the same country's language that once had slaved us.. We are proud to have our own national language and we will stick to it even though we dont want to know.. athu thani kathai
    we are sticking with english for most of our other stuff because for the market value...thats it.. it shall NEVER BE CONSIDERED AS A LANGUAGE TO CONVERSE IN INDIAN PARLIMENT. - my opinion.

    Shy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shy
    Obviously I wont vote to talk in english in MY country's parliment, the same country's language that once had slaved us.. We are proud to have our own national language and we will stick to it even though we dont want to know.. athu thani kathai
    we are sticking with english for most of our other stuff because for the market value...thats it.. it shall NEVER BE CONSIDERED AS A LANGUAGE TO CONVERSE IN INDIAN PARLIMENT. - my opinion.
    Shy Aunty enn solla mattenge... nenga nalla english padichutt inga vanthu nalla ver type pannurenga... padikathavan padura paadu avanukkula theriyum...

    Summa build up kodukathenga aunty. Slaved us Salved us, ethanai nalliki ithe sollikittu irruka porenga... ippadi solli sollitha, politician athanai perum vote vanguraan.... parliment le poi ennatha pannuranga.

    Athan sollitane.. seri english vendama, puthusa oru language kandu pidi ithanai peru irrukila... ellarukkum pothuva oru language kandu puduchu communicate panna vai...

    Ethukku airport pura english and other language ezhuthi vachirrukan aunty... summa avan avan language le ezhuthiu vaikka vendiyathane...

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    Shy Aunty enn solla mattenge... nenga nalla english padichutt inga vanthu nalla ver type pannurenga... padikathavan padura paadu avanukkula theriyum...

    Summa build up kodukathenga aunty. Slaved us Salved us, ethanai nalliki ithe sollikittu irruka porenga... ippadi solli sollitha, politician athanai perum vote vanguraan.... parliment le poi ennatha pannuranga.

    Athan sollitane.. seri english vendama, puthusa oru language kandu pidi ithanai peru irrukila... ellarukkum pothuva oru language kandu puduchu communicate panna vai...

    Ethukku airport pura english and other language ezhuthi vachirrukan aunty... summa avan avan language le ezhuthiu vaikka vendiyathane...
    Padikaama irukaana.. thats his fault.. we shouldnt encourage that.. Ungalai mathiri most of us think panara naala thaan innkau kerala'la ellarumae literate.. but tamila.. most of us english full alphabets kuuda sola theriyaama erukaanga..

    English is a global language and for us to be better off.. we have to learn that.. simple as that. Ungalai mathiri yosichaa yennaika namba china mathiri global level'la fight pana mudiyum sollunga.. Tamil, hindi vachutu.. thats why english is a must for everyone and we go for it..

    But athukaanga namba self respect vitu kuduka kuudaathu.... thats why there should a national language just for us. thats hindi.. why new language for that.. no no.. thats totally wrong..

    Parrunga simple example.. China and India yaeduthukoonga ..most of the off shore projects and other developments indiakku thaan varrathu why??? China'la their full education system is chinese. So even though they are pistu heads.. they couldnt grab the oppurtnity like we indians.. because our plus is we know english and can easily accustom to any developments required. But athukunu.. namakku national language ellainnu irukaa enna.. we have hindi..poothatha kuraikku mother tongue, neigbhor tongue'nu so many languages.. we should be proud of it..not embaraased

    Entha airport'la just english matum irukku point me out..

    if its kerala it will be in Malayalam, Hindi and English
    if its bangalore it will be in Kanada, Hindi and English
    if its chennai it will be in Tamil, Hindi and English
    if its bombay it will be in Hindi and English etc....

    Ethula tamil, hindi kuuda padika theriyaama irukaana.. avanai enna saiyaa.. shoela rendu poodu thaan poodanum.. thats his thirmir not to learn right??? why stop the country from moving just because of some fellows like that .. sollungo?

    Shy

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    Guys,

    I am proud to be born as an Indian. The community where I was born spoke Tamil, so my native language is Tamil.

    Sanskrit was the first language in India. With civilizations spreading into different parts of India, other languages came up, and they all are subsects of Sanskrit and with generations and generations sanskrit moved away from us.

    There is no hate among Hindi speaking ppl towards tamil Speaking or vice-versa. Its just the way we look at it with exceptions who are there only to disturb the peace and harmony of our country.

    We are the only nation in the whole world where such diverse and dynamic languages are spoken. We have to be proud of that fact.

    Comming more into the topic. Tamilians who stayed in TN and worked out of there never felt the necessity to learn Hindi and vice - versa. Take the families of the ppl wo work in the central govt or the Armed forces. Do any of you know as to what binds all of them together.. Its the national Language... How can you fight an enemy when the troops don't even have the proper communication skills.

    If they can forget the hatred of the language why can't we Citizens of the nation unite to ward off the differences and be one.

    I personally had a tough time in my childhood moving with my parents moving from one place to another learing languages. But in the end it has been to my benifit.

    How did we as Indians move the Brits out of our country? we were united in our struggle and our national language brought us together.

    I personally think that we all should make an effort to learn the languages of our ancestors i.e Sanskrit and that made our National Language.

    I know most of you may think that its not appropriate to learn it now... but remember all the languages in India originated from Sanskrit.

    Venky

  9. #29
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    Enna Aunty,

    Argument appadiye reverse pannurenga... Any way I quoted your words...

    Paarunga naan sonnen, A country to be united first basic thing is a language which is spoken all over that country.

    North kku onnu south kku onnu east kku onnu west kku onnu nu vachikirathala than we give roots for bad elements which powers by diversity, that the basic of politics. First that thing needs to be fixed.

    10 language irrukurathu le thappu illai, ellarum pesura mari oru language 'um irrukanum athu than nattukku safety. Naadu irrutha than veedum, nengalum, naanum.

    Seri English karan vanthu namma ellarthium slave pannitan athunala avan language nanga pesa mattom nu irruka mudiyuma... they did made us slaves and they did leave our place, but what is so wrong with the language as English?

    English language kkum politics kkum enna sambantham?

    Ivalo nalla points ellam mela sollitu, parliment le English le pesa kudathu naa enna sollurenga?

    Seri ivalo sollurengale, Indian law books ethule write panni irrunthanga first?

    Actually The people who slaved us are called the Britishers, English karan english karan nu solli solli avanga mela ulla veruppai english language mela katti.. inniki politics nadanthukittu irruku.

    Athan i gave another option, English pudikalaiya, call all the language researcher in all states of India and create new language for everyone which is easy and make everyone knowledgable. Enn athukku pathil solla mateengringa?

    Entha airport le just english mattum irruku nu keka kudathu... entha airport le english illama irruku nu naan kekuren? Gotcha?

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    Paarunga naan sonnen, A country to be united first basic thing is a language which is spoken all over that country.

    North kku onnu south kku onnu east kku onnu west kku onnu nu vachikirathala than we give roots for bad elements which powers by diversity, that the basic of politics. First that thing needs to be fixed.

    10 language irrukurathu le thappu illai, ellarum pesura mari oru language 'um irrukanum athu than nattukku safety. Naadu irrutha than veedum, nengalum, naanum.
    No no... I wont accept that.. Central'la irukara politics ooda tamilnadu politics kaevalam. Why is that? Angae basic thing common language - tamil thaan irukae???? why is it a problem then?

    Politics is not done because of any language. First understand that. In a parliment, obviously there are many other issues to play politics and never language is an issue.

    Unity in diversity is one of the best things that is happening in our country. we are unique in that and we should be proud of that.

    Seri English karan vanthu namma ellarthium slave pannitan athunala avan language nanga pesa mattom nu irruka mudiyuma... they did made us slaves and they did leave our place, but what is so wrong with the language as English?
    Again u are not understanding my point. English is a must for us. because its a global language and we want to know that to survive in the global market. but that doesnt mean we should encourage that as our national language. why should we. In the areas we need, we can use english. it need not be a must everywhere. When representing India.. indian language'nu irukanum... ooraan language iruka kuudaathu.. but for that.. there isnt a need to discover a new language. most comonly used language is used - hindi. thats it.

    English language kkum politics kkum enna sambantham?
    Neenga thaan anthar balti adikureenga.. ur previous posts.. u had mentioned that in parliment english vaenu,.. ellaina politics pannuvanga etc etc.. eppo enkita naan kaeta wuestion kaekureenga

    Ivalo nalla points ellam mela sollitu, parliment le English le pesa kudathu naa enna sollurenga?
    Seri ivalo sollurengale, Indian law books ethule write panni irrunthanga first?

    Actually The people who slaved us are called the Britishers, English karan english karan nu solli solli avanga mela ulla veruppai english language mela katti.. inniki politics nadanthukittu irruku.
    No one is making politics because of language. again and again nenga athai kondu vareenga dont know why.. who is makingpolitics just because of english sollunga in this corrupted country?

    Entha airport le just english mattum irruku nu keka kudathu... entha airport le english illama irruku nu naan kekuren? Gotcha?
    Airport is a place where not only indians travel and its a common place. English is one of our official language and we need it. The point u should have made if and only if any aiport just with english existed and it does not. So point in arguing that why english is there. it will be and should be.. but the main point is "ONLY AS A PART"...

    Argument appadiye reverse pannurenga... Any way I quoted your words...
    Engae reversed... let me know.. as far as i know.. u are the one reversed

    Shy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shy
    Unity in diversity is one of the best things that is happening in our country. we are unique in that and we should be proud of that.
    Aunty,

    Unity in diversity eppo theriyumla, cricket match and when some one is trying to hit us, athai unique feature a sollathinga, if it was really why so many indian change their citizenship in otehr countries and invest money in other countries business maam.

    Inga odane politics nu sollathinga, because if you say so... politics is different by your words . For a safer country you need to be united in one thing that everyone understands what the other is communicating... athu illai naa... base'le oru preechanai irruku nu artham.


    Quote Originally Posted by Shy
    Neenga thaan anthar balti adikureenga.. ur previous posts.. u had mentioned that in parliment english vaenu,.. ellaina politics pannuvanga etc etc.. eppo enkita naan kaeta wuestion kaekureenga
    Appuram ennathukku parliment le english vendam nu sollurenga?


    Quote Originally Posted by Shy
    No one is making politics because of language. again and again nenga athai kondu vareenga dont know why.. who is makingpolitics just because of english sollunga in this corrupted country?
    Nenga tha sonnenga Parliment le English le pesa kudathu nu...
    Oru global language le Parliment le pesuna enna thappu....irruku?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shy
    Airport is a place where not only indians travel and its a common place. English is one of our official language and we need it. The point u should have made if and only if any aiport just with english existed and it does not. So point in arguing that why english is there. it will be and should be.. but the main point is "ONLY AS A PART"...

    Well we talked about Aiport alone in this topic I guess. :D.

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    ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh...

    parliment'la english paesaama irukanumnnu naan sonathuku reason.. not that poilitics will happen. its a shame having some foreign language as your national language. when u have 18 languages(hope i am right)..

    why use some foreign language for conversing in parliment??? can u have ur own language... ethu naala thaan vaendaam sonaen.

    My opinion is its like we are losing our self respect when using english in our nations parliment. Other things we cant avoid.. so we are using english.. but in parliment yaen when we can avoid it..

    Eppo purinchuthaa ???

    Shy

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shy
    ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh...

    parliment'la english paesaama irukanumnnu naan sonathuku reason.. not that poilitics will happen. its a shame having some foreign language as your national language. when u have 18 languages(hope i am right)..
    why use some foreign language for conversing in parliment??? can u have ur own language... ethu naala thaan vaendaam sonaen.

    My opinion is its like we are losing our self respect when using english in our nations parliment. Other things we cant avoid.. so we are using english.. but in parliment yaen when we can avoid it..

    Eppo purinchuthaa ???

    Shy
    Very true Shy... Unfortunately, Hindi is as foreign to Tamils as English is. Isn't that the truth? And more over, no one is forcing you to learn English at the cost of learning Tamil. Did we really struggle for Independence for so many years, only to be enslaved by yet another language? Am I not a free man living in my own country, allowed to think, speak and communicate in my own language? Only thing we have against English is that it is spoken by a people who are not currently Indians. May be so. But our patriotism should be to develop all the Indian Languages (arts, and everything else). Doing official communication in a language is not promotion of that language but merely a compromise (unless by doing such communication, you call one of the several languages as 'official' and spend all the money in promotion of only that language and throttle the growth of any other 'equally' native languages). Promote every one of the languages in India - allow them to grow, nurture literature, translations, newer works, movies, magazines, etc... For all the other things we can boil down to any language..

    You see, the real problem lies in describing what is a national language? It is not a language spoken by all the people (unless its a country with only one language!). You can say its the one spoken by largest number of people. I think the very oncept of a National Language is a misnomer for a multi-language country like India. There can not be one such a thing - when the essence of the country is living with many languages, and yet attaining harmony and peace.
    Promotion of any one language at the cost of others will NOT lead to harmony and peace.
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  14. #34
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    Shy,

    A national language is a kind of misnomer in a multilinguistic society like ours as Vasan said. Now, if we talk in one language in parliament, wont we be sabotaging the "Freedom of Expression" clause of our constitution on which the Parliament is built? If Vajpayee talks in hindi, a MP from Tiruchendur Constituency may not understand. Or the vice versa when he talks Vajpayee may not understand. So english was chose for convenience rather than supporting that language. We can get around all these hassles if we have 18 translators doing the translation job, but the punch lines may be missing, because of the competency of the translator. So it is better to communicate in one language rather than in the name of national pride make the parliament spend more time translating.

    Also another point. Parliament also transact business of running the country, how is it different from a corporate environment? Because of slogans?

    Cheers.
    Every dog has its day. Today is my day.

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    Arumuganainar,
    Quote Originally Posted by anainar
    Also another point. Parliament also transact business of running the country, how is it different from a corporate environment? Because of slogans?
    Exactly what you are saying is true.

    Language barrier show the focus is too short.

    Look at many countries which were under under britisher still survive very good with English, example venuma?

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by venky1974
    Guys,

    I am proud to be born as an Indian.

    Sanskrit was the first language in India.

    I know most of you may think that its not appropriate to learn it now... but remember all the languages in India originated from Sanskrit.

    Venky
    This is a absolute lie. Tamil is not a subset of Sanskrit. It has own Grammar and self respect.
    Only Dravidians were in India and The oldest language is Tamil. Aryans were occupiers and their language was sanskrit. So its a world big lie to say sanskrit was the first language.
    All tamilians blood are boiled to say sanskrit is the first language and all languages originated from that. Great Great Lie...

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    Surya Lover,

    Please go through thsi site.

    http://www.cuisinecuisine.com/CultureLanguages.htm

    More to come

    Venky.

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    Who said so? I very much doubt that hindi is a foreign language. Step by step, following is a good explanation i read somewhere...

    we indians are from aryan race right. Hindi belongs to family of Aryan languages. Hindi has at least 13 different dialects and its the most commonly spoken language in India. But the reason Hindi was chosen to be the official language of India wasn’t because it is the most commonly spoken language in India, but it has connection with India history before it’s independence, simply put.

    Before India's independence, most of India was British colony. Before British the most dominant Empire of north India was the Moghul Empire. Moghuls were Muslim invaders who arrived in India from the present day Afghanistan, whose official language was Persian. The Moghuls, like other residents who lived to west of the Indian sub-continent named India as ‘Hind’ or ‘Hindustan’, after the river Indus which flows in present day Pakistan.

    The language spoken in ‘Hind’ was called by them Hindi or Hindustani. This language and its script were based on an ancient Indian language, Sanskrit. Most of the sacred books of Hinduism are written in Sanskrit and the script is called Devanagiri.

    Some of the Moghuls great patrons of poetry and music. Slowly there developed a ‘Hindustani’ poetry, based on Hindustani language which used words from Arabic and Persian and was written in Perso-Arabic script, called Urdu. Urdu replaced Persian as the language of the Moghul courtyards.

    After collapse of Moghuls, British became the rulers of north India. The British introduced English to India and continued using Urdu for official purposes. But nationalist Hindus demanded from the British to change the official language from Urdu to Hindi which is written in Indian script. Even Hindus whose mother tongue were not Hindi supported this argument. This debate between the Hindus and the Muslims continued right up to the independence of India.
    Against this stand of two different languages two of India’s notable leaders, Jawaharlal Nehru and Mahatma Gandhi, supported the idea of one Hindustani language which could be written in both forms. But when British India was divided in two countries, India and Pakistan. Muslims who got Pakistan made Urdu their official language and Indians made Hindi with Devanagiri script as their official language.


    But the debate over the official language didn’t end up with choosing Hindi with Devanagiri script as the official language. New debates occurred because of this decision.

    One problem was connected to the different dialects of Hindi and the second problem was connected to other languages which exist in India. The first problem was which dialect of Hindi is the right Hindi. Hindi has at least 13 dialects, some of them completely different from each other. Two reasons caused to it that Hindi language includes in it so many different dialects. One reason was related to the fact that India is called Hind in many languages spoken west from it up to the Middle East. Muslim invaders of India like the Moghuls came from these regions and called the language spoken in ‘Hind’ as Hindi. The Indians also began calling their different languages as ‘Hindi’. The other reason which concerns to the fact that Hindi has so many different dialects is related to the independence period of India and the debate of the official language of India.

    In order to secure Hindi’s position as the sole official language of India the political leaders convinced the north Indians to claim that they speak a Hindi dialect and so different dialect speakers were put together in the Hindi speaking category by the British bureaucrats. After India’s independence when Hindi was chosen as the official language of India, different ‘Hindi’ language speakers began demanding official recognition of their languages. Maithali and Punjabi speakers also demanded to recognize their languages as separate languages from Hindi. Of the different ‘Hindi’ languages, only Punjabi got this recognition. Other ‘Hindi’ languages are considered dialects of Hindi and their status in the different states of India isn’t clear and is interpreted differently by different parties. The official Hindi is based on the dialect which was spoken in the Delhi-Agra region with a Sanskrit vocabulary. While the popular Hindi spoken by majority of Indians is based on this dialect, it is also affected by the different cultures of India mainly the Hindi cinema based in Mumbai(formerly Bombay) in west India and it includes many English words.

    So hindi is our language - created from sanskrit.. how come its foreign???

    eppo sollunga.

    Shy

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    Shy,

    If you dig the history it will take millions of forms.

    You know what:

    Lot of countries want to make history since they don't have one and they are working hard to make it.

    India on the other hand has its history deep rooted and thats the reason people neglect to care to make more history.

    India is just not North - A Reminder, It has the south also the people of the south are called the Dravidians, who explored the business till Greece.

    Again I repeat all languages are national languages, but for interstate and international communication only one language must be followed.

    For that to happen:

    1. It can be English which is Global and it is off Indian origin.

    2. It can be a new language which should be created by researchers with analyzing all languages of India and plan to give training to all.

    Any other solution would definetly not going to stay on a long term basis, there are very huge factors and we don't enjoy like the west because of this one reason.

  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shy
    So hindi is our language - created from sanskrit.. how come its foreign???

    eppo sollunga.

    Shy
    In language, I am a Tamil. Tamil is not a language born out of any other language. For that matter, even if it is, right now it is its own language, and not a part of any other system. Any other language, other than Tamil is a foreign language to me. Foreign here does not refer to a language originated outside the 'current' geo-political boundaries of my country - but merely a language that is not my own.

    In country and citizenship, I am an Indian. Being Tamil and Indian are not opposite of each other. I can be tamil, and an Indian, and vice versa. I don't have to speak Hindi to be a Indian (or Tamil for that matter). I am not a free citizen, if I am forced to pay taxes to a foreign country or forced to speak any language other than my own!
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